A Refutation of Egoism

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Cynics are just idealists who had a reality check. You can never replace egoism with altruism. As long as there is something for someone to gain, even if it's romance or a nicer job in the socialist society, people wil fight for their own best interest and those naive enough to be absolute altruists will become stepping stones for those with initiative.

People have been looking for something better than capitalism for 5000 years and nobody has found something better. Since you are spouting off old, tried and failed ideas, you won't either.

Good thoughts sean.
except their is no such thing as an absolute altruist.

They would be squeezed out by the idea of survival of the fittest.

My idea of "absolute altruist" was just a socially minded person that doesn't have the initiative to get ahead. Your point about such people getting squeezed out by survival of the fittest is a good one though.

RobertN and like-minded people are up for natural selection!

Looks like we have another mindless social Darwinist on board. I've had a lot of those to deal with lately.

Just don't even go there Sean - I have far more resources than you do (personal, government, and family wealth). I would stay clear of that if I were you. In fact under your Darwinist society, you would go down much sooner than I would. You have multiple disabilities, can't hold down a job, your family is poor, you have no health insurance...what more can I say!!

It is actually for people like you that I hold my socialist beliefs. My family is fairly wealthy as it is.....I don't need socialism. Yet I still support it.

The difference between my MINDLESS dialog and your inane ramblings, RobiN is that my argument can actually hold water.

He He Ha Ha.

Sean, you are correct when stating that the altruisic is socially minded without desire to move ahead in life. In a sense, they are lazy with ambition.

I hope that toilet you are sitting on is nice...because you are going to start to see a lot of it..! !

Goody goody gum drops.

You ARE a gutten for punishment, aren't you.

i keep it in the loo, normally, chap. But ive been, remodeling, you see. You must forgive me my manners.

What is the basis of your argument?

My argument is like the unflushed toilet.

where yours, is like the toilet whose lever has just been depressed.

Yes mine is full of crap, normally, but at least it has substance.

In this instance, however, i kept the waste outside.

GET IT? OR SHALL I SLOW IT DOWN?

Correction, my dear fellow....

Your argument is the stuff in the unflushed tiolet, and it badly needs flushing!! !

In opinion based upon misinformation, to be certain.

WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT DID YOU DO WITH ROBERTN??? You suddenly sound like a 19th century Victorian aristocrat, and it contradicts everything you claim to stand for!


...As if you have so much room to talk sitting around leeching off of incapacity benifit, which your mom manages for you due to your own problems. At least I'm out getting job training!


That doesn't necessarily mean anything here. Anyway, my family is lower middle class, which is more like the low end of average. I have been through some hard times and have learned to be resourceful. In a crisis that you can't buy your way out of, the lower classes normally fare better because they are accustomed to dealing with sh***y situations.

If you rely on the NHS, then I have far better health insurance than you and I would never want to have to rely on the government for it. The kind of care that the NHS can offer is about the same as what I can get for the guinea pigs I've had at the local vet office.


I guess you could say alot of things, but you still wouldn't be able to back it up as usual.

There's one more thing that I would like to add abut how I would fare better in a crisis than you could under social Darwinism: If the situation turned svage, the last man standing would likely be holding a gun.

Me likey, this topic a whole bunch.

Although i wish that it hadn't been so one sided.

I have purposefully left room for debating my position, once it became clear the challenge, or lack there of.

A keen mind would have easily punched holes in my argument.

Sean, i'm not sure of the history here, although i have noticed many posts about the gun toting sean.
i believe with all my heart that a citizen should have the right to bear arms, but i don't believe in it as a final statement in debate. I think the idea that the framers of the us constitution had in mind was more of protection of ones liberties, most notably against a government who is not on the same agenda as its people, to form militia , and the likes.

The idea of natural selection was brought up in the case of a civilized society. I believe that we both agreed that those who were lazy by ambition would not survive in a society which encourages a man to be all that he can aspire to.

I hope to never be forced into the situation where survival was dictated by chaotic random selection. If it did then i suspect a person would need a gun and the ability to never sleep.

I'd venture to say that true altruistic acts are exceedingly rare.

Someone who volunteers at a homeless shelter most likely does so because they feel good about helping others. They also like being known as "the nice person who volunteers their time to help homeless people", and having that reputation is likely to help their career (especially if they are in politics), impress members of the opposite sex, encourage others to help them if they're ever in need, etc. It's a charitable act, but it's motivated by self interest.

I do a lot of things to help my friends, even if I'd rather be doing something else. Not too long ago I took the day off work to take a friend to the doctor's office because she didn't have a car and wanted someone to go with her. Helping a friend I cared about was worth more to me than the pay I'd have gotten from that day's work, so it was an easy decision. I do those things because I feel good when I help someone I care about, and I know that they will be more inclined to return the favor if I ever need help with something. Another "selfless" act motivated by self-interest.

I'd be willing to bet that even Mother Theresa--the supposed ultimate example of altruism--did what she did because it made her feel good to help others, and because she felt it helped her spiritually and satisfied her desire to serve God.

Altruism by its strict definition, where someone does something with absolutely no self-interest and doesn't want or get anything in return (even just simply feeling good), probably almost never happens.

What gives you the right to define anything. Who are you? The dictionary?

I am simply using this example to highlight what a cruddy system you have over there.

If he can back up his statement with sources, than he can define it. That is how the game is played around here. You should know that by now.