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xalepax
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19 Mar 2009, 11:25 am

ruveyn wrote:
Law is force. Forcing someone to give away his own property is extortion and plunder.

Taxation is theft, because it is backed up by force. It is legalized armed robbery.

ruveyn


Okay whatever you say. I have no knowledge about either laws, money or taxation (first time in my life I type that word)
If I ruled the world it would simply collapse emediately - because I cant rule it *over and out* :nerdy:


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phil777
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19 Mar 2009, 11:25 am

What if said property was obtained by illigitimate means? ^^

The history of Taxation was to take a part of the agricultural surplus so it could be stocked or exchanged for exotic goods later needed for construction or other innovations. There should only be force implied when tyranny is instored, and most people in the US have too much rights to claim to be in one. Law is not force -.- Law is a guideline of how to conduct yourself in your given society. Transgression of the law results in the use of force.

On the one side of Ruveyn's argument, i'll say that poor countries are annoying (mostly Africa, which'll be the example set here), they make tons of babies even though we tell them to stop doing so, they don't want to do what we tell them to because they're "independant", their leaderships are mostly corrupted, and they still expect us to give them money? =.= -sigh-

Oh and, keeping on topic, if i was to change the world... Probably erase humans from it ^^ We're the source of most problems on this planet anyways xD



Awesomelyglorious
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19 Mar 2009, 11:31 am

phil777 wrote:
Law is not force -.- Law is a guideline of how to conduct yourself in your given society. Transgression of the law results in the use of force.

ruveyn's claim is basically one of philosophical anarchism. Laws have no necessarily legitimacy, they are just created through power and accepted due to power. Other positions would reject his claims on your grounds, such as how laws are emergent from social positions. I favor the philosophical anarchist view though.



ZEGH8578
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19 Mar 2009, 12:33 pm

roadracer wrote:
If you could change anything in the world, what would you change, what kind of world do you want to live in?


i like the paleolithic age :oops: too late for that tho. but thats what i want.


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19 Mar 2009, 1:04 pm

If I was President, I would...

End the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan

Transfer some US soldiers to the Darfur region

Decrease taxation on the poor and low-income people

Allow gay marriage and abortion

Increase funding for electric and hybrid vehicles

Increase funding for education and health care

End the Drug Wars

Decrease racism, sexism, homophobia, ageism, and disabilism

Increase Main St. bailouts and decrease Wall St. bailouts

Increase funding for cleaner energy


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ZEGH8578
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19 Mar 2009, 2:22 pm

AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
If I was President, I would...

End the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan

Transfer some US soldiers to the Darfur region

Decrease taxation on the poor and low-income people

Allow gay marriage and abortion

Increase funding for electric and hybrid vehicles

Increase funding for education and health care

End the Drug Wars

Decrease racism, sexism, homophobia, ageism, and disabilism

Increase Main St. bailouts and decrease Wall St. bailouts

Increase funding for cleaner energy


if only... :(
liberia actually called out, desperately, for american military intervention. nothing.
and we all know how that went :(


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Sand
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19 Mar 2009, 2:42 pm

If I could change the world I would make it a cube so that there would be four great mountains that reached into space that would be great for rocket launches. Dawns and sunsets would be spectacular.



ruveyn
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19 Mar 2009, 3:48 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
phil777 wrote:
Law is not force -.- Law is a guideline of how to conduct yourself in your given society. Transgression of the law results in the use of force.

ruveyn's claim is basically one of philosophical anarchism. Laws have no necessarily legitimacy, they are just created through power and accepted due to power. Other positions would reject his claims on your grounds, such as how laws are emergent from social positions. I favor the philosophical anarchist view though.


Read Plato -The Republic-. See if you can refute Thrasymachus logically. No resort to sentimental rot now. It has to be done of the basis of fact and logic.

ruveyn



claire-333
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19 Mar 2009, 4:52 pm

Free breath mints for everyone!



merrymadscientist
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19 Mar 2009, 5:35 pm

Sand wrote:
If I could change the world I would make it a cube so that there would be four great mountains that reached into space that would be great for rocket launches. Dawns and sunsets would be spectacular.


Four? Surely eight mountains on a cube.

Any betterment of the world would involve getting rid of an awful lot of people. However, I'm wondering what the point of a better world really is. Humans are never going to be happy whatever you do. And is the world itself 'better' in its natural (unpopulated by humans) state, or in its highly developed and modified state? Who judges what 'better' is? If we are talking about 'better' for humanity, then probably the kindest thing is to annhilate us all quickly and painlessly without warning.



jamesp420
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19 Mar 2009, 5:46 pm

I would end world stupidity.


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phil777
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19 Mar 2009, 5:47 pm

Oh gee, do i want to read Plato? -.- Had enough of him during philosophy classes. Besides, the terms and uses of the law have changed since Ancient Greece.

And i'm happy to see Merrymadscientist agrees with what i said regarding erasing humans.

As for anynonymousx2, "Increase Main St. bailouts and decrease Wall St. bailouts" this is the only point i don't really understand about what you said, but i'd agree on the rest.

Oh and James, as someone once said :"It's by looking at human stupidity that we can have an idea of infinity."



Sand
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19 Mar 2009, 11:37 pm

merrymadscientist wrote:
Sand wrote:
If I could change the world I would make it a cube so that there would be four great mountains that reached into space that would be great for rocket launches. Dawns and sunsets would be spectacular.


Four? Surely eight mountains on a cube.

Any betterment of the world would involve getting rid of an awful lot of people. However, I'm wondering what the point of a better world really is. Humans are never going to be happy whatever you do. And is the world itself 'better' in its natural (unpopulated by humans) state, or in its highly developed and modified state? Who judges what 'better' is? If we are talking about 'better' for humanity, then probably the kindest thing is to annhilate us all quickly and painlessly without warning.


Sorry. Eight mountains it is. I was tired last night and what little talents I have for mathematics evaporated completely. Also a linear accelerator mounted on one of the edges would make rockets unnecessary for shooting material into space and would be far safer than rockets. Instead of a cube, perhaps a dodecahedron instead of a cube would be more possible under gravity conditions and would provide a more useful number of rail launching sites. Physics would probably make even this modification impossible so we must depend upon prayer for God to redesign Earth into a more useful shape.



monkees4va
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20 Mar 2009, 5:09 am

Sand wrote:
monkees4va wrote:
I would start the world respecting each other fairly and equally.
I would make people respect anybody, not just people wth a lot of money or with a certain social status or natinality. I would make people value others by their actions and actions alone, and judge not their community as a whole but the individual. I would stop racism, homophobia, disablism and so on. The list is endless.


There seems to be a problem. People with strong racist and anti-gay and anti-abortion beliefs might demand respect for their point of view. And groups enthusiastic about violence against critics of Muslims or Israel could give trouble.


As mentioned, I would love to stop them juding the community as a whole. By this I mean all 'gays are bad' attitudes would go, and only specific people in that community hated if with reason (say a rapist or such) I don't judge islam as a community, I judge their seperate members of that religion seperatly. I think the world would be a much better place


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khelben1979
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23 Mar 2009, 10:11 am

roadracer wrote:
If you could change anything in the world, what would you change, what kind of world do you want to live in?


I experience the topic as a bit funny. We can all change the world by actually doing something about how things works instead of just discussing about things we wants to do.

I would like Boinc screensavers installed on every computer everywhere to speed up the rate of science. How many of you people are helping out in this? (I know I've asked the question before on this forum but the question didn't got much attention)

Boinc on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boinc


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Zyborg
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23 Mar 2009, 10:13 am

Check documentary Zeitgeist Addendum