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alba
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11 Apr 2009, 8:36 pm

^^^
I corrected my post, so part of it as quoted above is in error.

Should be:
Space/time doesn't exist except in *local* terms and as mental constructs by which we organize life into supposedly manageable compartments.



Dussel
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11 Apr 2009, 10:02 pm

TallyMan wrote:
As, I remember, the physics depended on how much matter is in the universe. If there is enough then it is finite but unbounded. To put that in common language picture the universe as the surface of a beach ball. The ball is gradually getting bigger. If you draw a straight line on the ball you eventually get back to the starting point. Similarly with travel in a finite but unbounded universe, it has no edge. If you could keep travelling you would eventually get back to where you started.

The picture may be more complex than that now though with dark matter, dark energy and membrane theory all being thrown into the scientific theorem melting pot.


It appears only complex for our minds: I like to refer a bit to I. Kant, that our model of the world is shaped as well as with sensual perception of the world as well as with our pre-set ideas of the world. The origin of those ideas is relative easy to explain with the task this model had to serve in struggle of surviving on the surface of the earth.

If we recall this and realize that this model was never tested evolutionary to provide any inside into the structure of space, time and matter it would be very surprising when this structure would follow our pre-set ideas of the world at all.

We are struggling here with an ape's brain and an abstract reasoning machine combined into one body and mind.



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11 Apr 2009, 10:13 pm

Check our many worlds theory yeh there is another universe exactly the same as this one except your wearing a different shirt.And there are the matters of dark matter the fact that they dont know what mass or time are.



Dussel
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11 Apr 2009, 10:25 pm

philosopher wrote:
Check our many worlds theory yeh there is another universe exactly the same as this one except your wearing a different shirt.And there are the matters of dark matter the fact that they dont know what mass or time are.


Mass and time is that what we measure as mass and time.

For me an other question is highly interesting and I don't have any reasonable answer, nor I ever heard about one:

The 2nd Main Law of Thermodynamics is in its very nature rooted in time. But what is deeper link between the thing"time" we measure today with the oscillation of caesium atoms to do with entropy in the universe?

Perhaps anyone has an idea?



Sand
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11 Apr 2009, 11:53 pm

philosopher wrote:
Check our many worlds theory yeh there is another universe exactly the same as this one except your wearing a different shirt.And there are the matters of dark matter the fact that they dont know what mass or time are.


The parallel universe theory is an accepted possibility but to claim it as a reality is a major leap into fantasy.



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12 Apr 2009, 1:18 am

If you go in a straight line for long enough you will eventually come back to the point you started at...

In some circles this can be considered to be infinite.

(apologies about the pun...)


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ruveyn
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12 Apr 2009, 11:29 am

Sand wrote:
philosopher wrote:
Check our many worlds theory yeh there is another universe exactly the same as this one except your wearing a different shirt.And there are the matters of dark matter the fact that they dont know what mass or time are.


The parallel universe theory is an accepted possibility but to claim it as a reality is a major leap into fantasy.


Right. There is not an iota of empirical evidence to support the existence of alternative universes or time lines. Not a smidgin.

ruveyn



alba
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12 Apr 2009, 12:24 pm

Disclaimer

Just thinking about parallel universes is cool because it's a consciousness limbering exercise in non-linear thinking....alternative to the straight line, one directional flow of time and limited 3D space reality. The following is only conjecture, speculation and sci-fi nonsense, the non-specific ramblings of a mind overstimulated by fantasy. I eat sci-fi...and admittedly lack adequate technical knowledge of the intricate theoretical tools needed for suggesting useful mathematical models....and thus a viable scientifically rigorous method of verification.

Cycles, patterns and rhythms

The universe is a template of cycles, rhythms and patterms....an uber complex equation. At the universe level, everything is recycled and conserved. Forms are in flux, components may mutate...and everything is in a state of disintegration and reintegration or regeneration. Everything recombines and re-forms...and nothing is wasted or discarded. However matter/energy may transfer from one dimension to another thus appearing to be vanished/destroyed. Similarly matter/energy may materialize out of seeming nowhere when it transfers into manifestation from another dimension.

Black holes and dark matter are not cosmic dumpsters, for at the universe level, there is no wastage ever. Black holes are possible portals for shortcuts through space/time [as well as cosmic wombs]. Whistleblowers are saying we've had star-gate or more specifically jump-room technology for decades. Jumproom technology [like the Star Trek transporter] is a way to implement faster than light speeds, where transfers through extra dimensions may be utilized. Therefore nothing is in a linear sense going faster than light, it only appears to do so because of extra-dimensional transfers, or shortcuts. The end result IS FTL speeds. It isn't coincidental black holes are at the center of galactic formations because they are mothers of galaxies and stars from which, ultimately, everything else is created. Whistleblowers are also saying we've had anti-gravitational propulsion systems for decades. Possibly reverse-engineered ET propulsion devices.

Life and non-life are a continuum. At the end of the life part of the spectrum are living process systems such as reproductive, circulatory and digestive. But everything is intelligent. Everything has a frequency or vibration as well as a rhythm. This rhythm is the cosmic heartbeat [ebb/flow; throb, beat] at various scales. It is a dance in which no attendee is left partner-less. Everything dances with everything else. And does so intimately.

Space/time at the non-local level does not exist in terms of discreet categories....as it is perceived by an ordinary earth human on the local level. Our perception of space/time may be a function of gravity, with the speed of time and the density of mass existing directly proportional to the amplitude of gravitational flux. [not my idea]


*I reserve the right to edit or delete this post*



Last edited by alba on 12 Apr 2009, 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

philosopher
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12 Apr 2009, 12:24 pm

What about what guys cat ok it was a thought experiment and the double slit experiment suggest that things can be in the two places at the same time and the measurement problem shows that things are different when observed evidence perhaps not but it should be considered as a possibility if not probability



Sand
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12 Apr 2009, 1:25 pm

philosopher wrote:
What about what guys cat ok it was a thought experiment and the double slit experiment suggest that things can be in the two places at the same time and the measurement problem shows that things are different when observed evidence perhaps not but it should be considered as a possibility if not probability


The Schrödinger cat problem indicated that it would be impossible to determine whether the cat was alive or dead until the box was opened. I am not familiar with the mathematics but I don't think it implied parallel universes. The double slit experiment indicated that what had been assumed to be a discrete particle was actual possible to see as a wave which can pass through two slits simultaneously.



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12 Apr 2009, 3:30 pm

If the cat is both dead and alive and the paticle is a wave at the same time does this not imply at least two realities exist parralel to each other.



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12 Apr 2009, 4:14 pm

I haerd thet tharas a guy just lika ma in enothar univarce who typas his a's end e's beckwerds, but I don't baliave it.

Adit: Wow, thet lightning wes close.


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Sand
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12 Apr 2009, 9:52 pm

philosopher wrote:
If the cat is both dead and alive and the paticle is a wave at the same time does this not imply at least two realities exist parralel to each other.


No.



alba
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12 Apr 2009, 10:38 pm

String and M theory postulate parallel universes.



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12 Apr 2009, 10:52 pm

Why yes, the universe is infinite, and you do have a twin out there in some parallel universe; BUT, you have to realize that life is never the exact same way as it is elsewhere, for all is random, and unfortunately your twin has a peach-fuzz mustache, constantly wears wife beaters, and likes country. Sorry. 8)



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13 Apr 2009, 12:24 am

Averick wrote:
Why yes, the universe is infinite, and you do have a twin out there in some parallel universe; BUT, you have to realize that life is never the exact same way as it is elsewhere, for all is random, and unfortunately your twin has a peach-fuzz mustache, constantly wears wife beaters, and likes country. Sorry. 8)

WAIT!! ! I'M THE TWIN!! !! ! 8O