Do Internet Atheists Have Anything New To Say?

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ZEGH8578
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30 Apr 2009, 11:26 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Whenever I see an argument against the existence of God, against the Bible, against Christianity, or yet another ploy of "it's not my job to provide proof!", I wonder to myself, "has this been said before?". And the answer to that question is almost certainly, "yes".

For "free-thinkers" I suppose it must be difficult not to think up original arguments.

Here is a good view of the Internet: "vanity of vanities; all is vanity. What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun? One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the chatter abideth for ever."

why do atheists need to provide proof for anything?

im an atheist.
religion IS NOT A DEBATE for me.
its not something i am insecure about, or need to discuss. debating back and forth wether or not i need to mix my world view with manmade fiction, is absolutely NO issue for me.

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CanyonWind
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30 Apr 2009, 12:08 pm

Sand wrote:

With the advent of secular science many if not all of the unknowns claimed to be answered by religion have been demonstrated to be totally false. And the new discoveries have rewarded the world with all sorts of life improvements and daily rewards which religion is helpless to offer. If these can be accepted as arguments, they are unanswerable by anybody with the minimum of good sense.

Science and the technology it inevitably creates are merely tools, like a hammer that can be used to build a school or used as a murder weapon. A tool is no better than the hand that holds it, so more often these tools are used as murder weapons to gain power.

Science is one more beautiful and fascinating mythology, but that's all it is, a product of a brain that evolved for survival and reproduction in a dangerous and desperate environment, a primate living on the ground in a world full of predators and enemies.

Comprehending ultimate truth has little value in survival or reproduction. It did not shape the human brain.

I can't understand the logic of demanding physical proof for the existence of non-physical entities.

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ZEGH8578
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30 Apr 2009, 12:11 pm

CanyonWind wrote:

Sand wrote:

"science is a mythology" can only come from a religious mind.
thats where it always crashes.

science: the pen is made of wood. we can excamine it, and prove it.
religion: the pen is made of magic wood, it turns to liquid when we're not looking, and has lots of tiny people living inside it. you cant disprove it.

science: yes we can prove it. *opens pen up, looks inside* *films pen when nobody's looking*
religion: that proves nothing.

we checked inside human bodies. no soul.
we checked above the clouds. no heaven.

"that proves nothing"

oh?
so... we cant disprove religion, simply because religious people SAY we cant disprove it.

I GET IT!! !
science is about believing what you SEE

religion is about SAYING stuff, no matter what you see:

science: look at the wooden people-empty insides of this pen.
religion: i see people in there.

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Last edited by ZEGH8578 on 30 Apr 2009, 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CanyonWind
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30 Apr 2009, 12:13 pm

ZEGH8578 wrote:

"science is a mythology" can only come from a religious mind.
thats where it always crashes.

I don't think anybody would call me religious, and I love science.

ZEGH8578
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30 Apr 2009, 12:16 pm

CanyonWind wrote:

ZEGH8578 wrote:

"science is a mythology" can only come from a religious mind.
thats where it always crashes.

I don't think anybody would call me religious, and I love science.

and i like pizza. enough w the personal facts.

what do you mean by "science is a mythology"?

science is observation. religion is refusal of observation.
they are fundamentally different, and have nothing in common.

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monty
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30 Apr 2009, 12:22 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

For "free-thinkers" I suppose it must be difficult not to think up original arguments.

Here is a good view of the Internet: "vanity of vanities; all is vanity. What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun? One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the chatter abideth for ever."

The internet is merely a tool for communicating. Gutenberg popularized movable type, which took book publishing away from scribes in monasteries, and then everyone could afford a Bible. With the internet, anyone can publish something and immediately make it available to people across the world... the old institutions of printing/publishing have much less clout than before. Otherwise, people's opinion on the existence of God haven't changed all that much simply because we have better technology to communicate.

Of course, Gutenberg ultimately lead to the Protestant Reformation ... so maybe the new technology will ultimately prove disruptive.

Last edited by monty on 30 Apr 2009, 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CanyonWind
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30 Apr 2009, 12:25 pm

Science isn't just observation. Science is interpretation of observed phenomena, stories made up to explain what's observed, like any other mythology.

I think the capability of the rational human brain has limits defined by the evolutionary purpose that shaped it. Submarines were not designed to fly, and the process of reason did not evolve to comprehend ultimate truth.

Sand
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30 Apr 2009, 12:40 pm

CanyonWind wrote:

This concern with ultimate truth is rather fascinating. Basically, insofar as religion is concerned. the efforts to formulate ultimate truth by ignoring the observed forces that control and effect the dynamics of the universe is to resort to unprovable fantasies based on social structures. Thus God or gods are based clearly on family structure or tribal conventions and have no more application to the dynamics of the universe than other amusing naive conceptions.

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30 Apr 2009, 1:06 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:

What else can be said. Why is it up to the non believers to disprove the believers.

because dont you know? we are all going to heaven. thats right, also we need money to spread this message. the most pathetic ive ever seen is pastor rod parsley on tv using the economic DISASTER to further his cause. he also had a former hooker on his show and kept inturrupting her to let everyone know that even in ecomomic hardships he still believed people donated. like im shure hes hurting finacially. bigtime, remember everyone jesus saves but only when he shops at wal-mart!

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30 Apr 2009, 1:18 pm

CanyonWind wrote:

Science is one more beautiful and fascinating mythology, but that's all it is, a product of a brain that evolved for survival and reproduction in a dangerous and desperate environment, a primate living on the ground in a world full of predators and enemies.

Science is not a "mythology", but "methology". A method to understand the world in all its facets and its functioning.

CanyonWind wrote:

I can't understand the logic of demanding physical proof for the existence of non-physical entities.

There are no things like "non-physical entities".

Dussel
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30 Apr 2009, 1:21 pm

CanyonWind wrote:

Science isn't just observation. Science is interpretation of observed phenomena, stories made up to explain what's observed, like any other mythology.

Myths (and here is no difference between the juicy stories of the Greeks or the bible) are not subject to test and revision. The scientific method is based on the fact that any theory must be subject to control. A theory which does not stand the test of reality and does not produce those results predicted by the theory is simply wrong.

Khan_Sama
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30 Apr 2009, 1:24 pm

You have fanatics propagating a cause, sometimes with violence.

You have people who are not bothered about religion, atheism, agnosticism, or any other ideology. I usually tend to club communism and other such ideologies.

You have those who search for the truth.

And you have those who have found what they searched for.

Religion should not be a cause for discord, nor the rejection of religion. Instead of bickering about your differences, discuss your similarities in beliefs. Instead of of causing discord, try to unite. A house divided can't stand by itself.

Open your eyes. Or would you will continue to blame every problem surrounding you on every single possibility except yourself?

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30 Apr 2009, 1:46 pm

Khan_Sama wrote:

Religion should not be a cause for discord, nor the rejection of religion.

We can't afford any longer religion. An bronze age ideology and 21th century technology are a dangerous combination. When in 17th century Europeans fpound it great to kill each other based on different ideas of the nature of Eucharist it was not a danger for the world. If religious fundamentalist become the driving force behind any big power or just would get access on biological weapons it mean the end of the world.

To many hours are wasted in religion, which could be spend better.

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30 Apr 2009, 1:56 pm

just_ben wrote:

I think it might be Richard Dawkins job to provide proof.

“What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.” (Christopher Hitchens)

it's you - religionists - that have a thing or two to prove. not the other way round.

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greenblue
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30 Apr 2009, 2:55 pm

ZEGH8578 wrote:

why do atheists need to provide proof for anything?

well, it depends on which atheist, some may be respectful and consistent and others may not, and some think those should probably shut up as some arguments seem flawed or dishonest, and of course, the same applies to Christians.

Quote:

im an atheist.

I'm an alcoholic.

Quote:

religion IS NOT A DEBATE for me.
its not something i am insecure about, or need to discuss. debating back and forth wether or not i need to mix my world view with manmade fiction, is absolutely NO issue for me.

Then it all comes down to.... to each to their own, right?

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greenblue
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30 Apr 2009, 3:13 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

well, to be honest, I believe everything has been said before, that including Christianity, I mean, I could go to a church and say, what they are saying in the sermon has been all said before, I believe I would get that feeling.

Anyway, some atheists arguments on the web seem flawed, and probably those are what you say to be the same, and some others seem to be good, an example of this would be the site evilbible.com, which seems to provide flawed and even dishonest arguments, wereas the site atheism.about.com seems to do a good job with their arguments, which seem to be well constructed, at least from my perspective.

Quote:

For "free-thinkers" I suppose it must be difficult not to think up original arguments.

well, I don't think there is an original argument for atheism, not for Christianity either.

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