Are Jews Basically "Fellow Christians?"

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I don't believe in "cashing in". I believe in earning by due effort. I refuse to take advantage of someone else's dopey doings.

ruveyn

You are saying two opposite things. First of all, they don't do enough. Namely you want something to be SEEN. And secondly they do too much. In particular you ONLY want good manners, nothing more. I guess it simply feels like this: they don't do enough, so now they are condemned for not doing enough, and thats why they should do even less so they can feel even more condemned.

If someone is going to so me a service let it be a substantial and real service. I would just as soon not be prayed for or blessed. And I would prefer that the service be done, for that reason that it is the RIGHT thing to do. I don't want favors from anyone. If someone is going to take a stand against tyranny let it be because that is the basic conviction of their heart --- tyranny is evil and should be fought. And that is why it should be done, not because I needed it. My needs are no one's commands.

ruveyn

But, that is exactly what capitalism and free markets are all about.

Takataka hapa,
Pale pia takataka
Takataka pote,
Kila siku takataka

I am surprised you just said it. Everyone has their needs and everyone wants their needs to be taken care of, not just the "right hting to do". I, for one, would like people to take better care of my needs. In my case. I would like the professors to spend more time and effort trying to find job connections for me. This is not the "right thing to do"; this is strictly my needs. I am sure that your Jewish friends care about your needs, too. You simply reject it from Christians because of your own grudge against them.

That is way out of line pandabear even for you.

Fair is fair. Borrowing ruveyn's wording makes it sound worse. But it is NOT out of line to say that capitalism involves getting people to pay for what I have and they do not. It is NOY out of line to point out that business relies on convincing people they want what they may not need. Can you say "Pet Rocks"? If I buy a book at a price half what I would willingly pay, because the vendor does not know its value, is THAT not within the bounds of free market capitalism?

Truth is no insult.

Pet rocks is a lot different from what pandabear was implying.

Okay. I will bite.

What was he implying? I only know what he SAID.

Around here people seem to think I'm implying things when I am simply saying.

He seems to be implying that the Jewish people are playing the victim card in order to take advantage of people.

Is he implying or are you inferring?

He SAID: "But, they're so anxious to bless you right now, you could have them do just about anything you want.

Some folks in Israel are taking advantage of the offer in a very big way. Maybe you should see whether you could cash in somehow, too."

First statement - yes, for various reasons some Christians want to "bless Israel". I know some personally. This is an exaggerated statement - "anything you want"? - but basically straight.

Second statement - some Israelis accept economic blessings when offered. I do not know this to be fact - who do I know in Israel? But why should you doubt it? If someone offers to bless me with a couple thousand, I will say "Thankee kindly." You wouldn't?

Der motl is persistently flippand and fact careless and on occasion obnoxious, but I see no foul here.

I'm glad that you agree.

You are so profoundly bad at reading people one could almost say that your brain is wired
in some alien fashion like you were born on the . . . I don't know. . . wrongplanet.

No. A lot of American Christians have taken the notion that they need to "bless Israel", which has involved American churches spending billions of dollars on projects in Israel.

And, a lot of bemused Israelis have been taking full advantage to fulfill the need of American Christians to feel that they are blessing Israel.

It makes perfect economic sense. American Christians part with their money, feel blessed, and Israelis are getting a lot of goodies out of the deal. The free market rules, and the markets clear.

However, American Christians generally don't need to feel "guilty" about Jews or Israel. For the most part, Jews have done very well for themselves in the USA.

If it is a matter of expiating "guilt", then American churches really should be spending the money on American Indian reservations and in Black neighborhoods.

And many do. The only thing is that the ones who help black neighborhood tend to be on the left while the ones who help Jews tend to be on the right.

I suspect that there is a connection though. It could have been like this. First, American felt guilty for the slavery. So they wanted to help blacks. Then their views expanded to other minority groups. So they decided to help gays. Then, once their list of "protected minorities" kept expanding, sooner or later it included Jews. At this point, "helping Jews" was on the leftist agenda, just like any other minority group was. But the left kept trying to perswade the right to agree with them, by quoting the bible. In case of gays, they were quoting "judge not les be judged". This didn't work. In case of Jews, they quoted "Jews are gods chosen people". Luckilly for Jews, that worked. So they got "the right" on their side. But then the right became far more enthusiastic in this pursuit than the left ever hoped. This became too much for "the left" to bear since it lead to an opposition to palestinians which is another "protected minority" that 'the left' feels sorry for. As a result, "the Jews" were dropped from the left's list of protected minorities and became rights' agenda; while the blacks and gays whom the right does not support are still receiving sympathy from the left.



Well, first of all, it is not entirely correct. There was time when Jews, among with Irish, were not allowed in certain prestigious schools. Secondly, of course, there has been holocaust and "everyone" feels bad about it, not just Germans. Now, I agree: these two issues wouldn't explain why Americans feel "more guilty" than Europeans. I mean I am sure the problem of Jews not being able to go to prestigious schools was widespread in Europe too; and the guilt for holocaust is likewise evenly spread. So like I said, I believe it is the slavery that simply made Americans more "sensitized" to the whole "persectution" topic, which eventually spilled over to American sympathy towards the Jews.

Last edited by Roman on 16 Jul 2011, 11:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.