Supreme Court Upholds "Obamacare!"

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30 Jun 2012, 10:23 am

It's going to be difficult not to take it. Just as most red states took the stimulus money.

Politically it will be a perpetual issue in the states that don't take it. Voters will hear about it again in every state election cycle. Even in the primaries.

androbot2084
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30 Jun 2012, 10:26 am

The Republicans will find an excuse not to take the money that will be used to fund abortions.

marshall
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30 Jun 2012, 10:37 am

ArrantPariah wrote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/30/us/politics/some-states-reluctant-over-medicaid-expansion.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120630

Quote:

Millions of poor people could still be left without medical insurance under the national health care law if states take an option granted by the Supreme Court and decide not to expand their Medicaid programs, state officials and health policy experts said Friday.

Republican officials in more than a half-dozen states said they opposed expanding Medicaid or had serious doubts about it, even though the federal government would pick up all the costs in the first few years and at least 90 percent of the expenses after that.

While upholding the most hotly debated part of the health care overhaul law — a requirement that most Americans have health insurance or pay a penalty — the Supreme Court said in its ruling on Thursday that states did not have to expand Medicaid as Congress had intended — leaving a huge question mark over the law’s mechanism for providing coverage to 17 million of the poorest people.

In writing the law, Congress assumed that the poorest uninsured people would gain coverage through Medicaid, while many people with higher incomes would receive federal subsidies to buy private insurance. Now, poor people who live in a state that refuses to expand its Medicaid program will find themselves in a predicament, unable to obtain either Medicaid or subsidies.

So, Republicans will still have the joy of gleefully dancing on the graves of the poor in states where Republicans call the shots.

Not that the poor would necessarily be able to afford a grave.

Only wealthy people have earned the right not to suffer horribly or die should they get sick. Healthcare is a commodity to be bought and sold at a fixed price, just like big screen TV's. In other words sickness is something for corporations to maximize profit off of. Preventive care is bad because it eats into profits. And this is the party that supposedly values human life.

marshall
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30 Jun 2012, 10:41 am

androbot2084 wrote:

The Republicans will find an excuse not to take the money that will be used to fund abortions.

I'm not 100% in favor of legalized late-term abortion, but it annoys me that republicans seem to value the lives of the unborn more than the lives of those who have already drawn their first breath of air.

ruveyn
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30 Jun 2012, 10:44 am

androbot2084 wrote:

Let us make a marketplace out of healthcare.u

Health care has always been bought and sold. Ever since Hippocrates.

Do you think the Greek doctors worked for free? The Roman doctors? Doctors have always billed for their services.

ruveyn

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30 Jun 2012, 10:48 am

ruveyn wrote:

androbot2084 wrote:

Let us make a marketplace out of healthcare.u

Health care has always been bought and sold. Ever since Hippocrates.

Do you think the Greek doctors worked for free? The Roman doctors? Doctors have always billed for their services.

ruveyn

Humans were also once bought and sold. Still are. Anything can be made a commodity. Longevity of practice does not always equate with correctness. It is up to us as civilized Humans to draw the line

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ruveyn
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30 Jun 2012, 10:49 am

ArrantPariah wrote:

There is a market failure in our health care system, and hence the need for government intervention.

Health Care will become scarce for all but the very rich. Watch. Watch the waiting lines grow longer for precautionary MRI scans for example. It has already happened in Canada. It will happen here.

The only people who have no worries or little worries about health care are the very rich. This will become even more true in the not too distant future.

ruveyn

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30 Jun 2012, 10:50 am

ruveyn wrote:

It has already happened in Canada. It will happen here.

This is simply untrue no matter how many times you repeat it

marshall
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30 Jun 2012, 10:59 am

ruveyn wrote:

androbot2084 wrote:

Let us make a marketplace out of healthcare.u

Health care has always been bought and sold. Ever since Hippocrates.

Do you think the Greek doctors worked for free? The Roman doctors? Doctors have always billed for their services.

ruveyn

Why not bill based on ability to pay? That is essentially what so-called "socialist medicine" is all about. I suppose you will get red in the face over those poor "free-loaders" getting more service than they paid for. I have nothing to argue other than to say your ethics is pretty damn twisted.

ruveyn
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30 Jun 2012, 11:01 am

Vigilans wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

It has already happened in Canada. It will happen here.

This is simply untrue no matter how many times you repeat it

Take a look at:

http://www.bcliving.ca/health/mri-scans ... mri-clinic

ruveyn

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30 Jun 2012, 11:03 am

marshall wrote:

I am ethically opposed to free-loading. I am also opposed to slavery. Eventually the government will mandate physicians to provide services for less than they would normally charge. It which point you will see a doctor shortage (I wonder why?).

ruveyn

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30 Jun 2012, 11:07 am

ruveyn wrote:

marshall wrote:

Not necessarily. Cuba has a lot more doctors per capita than we do, and Cuban doctors are paid a lot less.

Stop worrying already!

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30 Jun 2012, 11:09 am

ruveyn wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

It has already happened in Canada. It will happen here.

This is simply untrue no matter how many times you repeat it

Take a look at:

http://www.bcliving.ca/health/mri-scans ... mri-clinic

ruveyn

The problem presented here is not with the healthcare but with the shortage of MRI machines. While Harper is in charge that is not likely to be a problem solved. Unless it is for the military or one of his cronies, he is unwilling to put his money where his mouth is

ruveyn
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30 Jun 2012, 11:15 am

Vigilans wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

It has already happened in Canada. It will happen here.

This is simply untrue no matter how many times you repeat it

Take a look at:

http://www.bcliving.ca/health/mri-scans ... mri-clinic

ruveyn

Precautionary MRI scans is absolutely vital to detecting cancer before it gets serious. It is also vital to detecting potential blood vessel bursting in the skull.

You have single payer long waits for MRI scans. I can get one (and I have) in under a week and it is covered by my insurance.

ruveyn

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30 Jun 2012, 11:18 am

androbot2084 wrote:

Quote:

And those republicans who love to oppress the poor by denying them healthcare call themselves Christians?

They are not denied healthcare anymore than they are denied buying a new car, period. It’s a simple matter of economics. The reason healthcare and healthcare insurance are so expensive is due at least in part to greed and greed knows no political boundaries. Right or wrong, greed will always find a way to satisfy itself.

Marshall wrote:

Quote:

Healthcare is a commodity to be bought and sold at a fixed price, just like big screen TV's.

Yeah, that’s pretty much the way it is and I can’t see Obamacare being the godsend to change things as much as expected.

Quote:

……republicans seem to value the lives of the unborn more than the lives of those who have already drawn their first breath of air.

How about we just give them a chance by allowing them to be born? There are no guarantees, written or implied, after that except for taxes and eventual death……
As far as unwanted (by their parents) births go why not try inexpensive contraceptives, pulling out early, or just plain chastity? Try any one of the three, especially the last, and I assure you the whole abortion thing question will shrink considerably.
The only exception to the above, of course, is rape.

marshall
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30 Jun 2012, 11:28 am

ruveyn wrote:

marshall wrote:

No, people who can afford to pay more make up the cost of those treated for less. It all balances out. The collective cost is divided up based on amount of sacrifice rather than the absolute cost of individual service. It is simply a different kind of payment scheme that is more fair.

In any case, hospital ER's already treat free-loaders without insurance. Sure, they get billed, but rarely are the uninsured able to pay off their debt in full. Thus hospitals must raise costs on insured patients, which raises insurance premiums. To refuse treatment to someone with a life-threatening health emergency goes against the oath of the medical practice. If you want to be barbaric and require payment up-front before admittance then good luck to you.

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