Spanking - abuse or effective

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You don't spank just to spank, you spank when it's something really serious and something that disobedience about is not an option.

Because you are telling exactly the same stuff?

beating their kids.

Icecream? Is icecream really serious and something that disobedience is not an option? Two pages ago someone wrote proudly about beating her kids because of icecream.

Er, you're missing the point. This isn't about ice cream. It's about getting to the root of the problem. If the child is giving me a hard time over something unrelated when the real problem is the child didn't get something she wanted after school, having an understanding of the real problem, which may or may not be ice cream, is the first step in dealing with it. It's inappropriate for me as a parent to get derailed over something as silly as ice cream. No amount of "explanations" are going to solve what you believe is an intellectual problem when the real issue has to do with a child's determination to get her way.

And besides, "ice cream" is just a hypothetical. I'm not referring to a specific event, just anything that could come up.

People even admitted here in this thread and told (u]proudly[/u] about how they spank their kid when they dont entertain them sufficient or because they have self esteem issues and simply feel themselved opposed when a person doenst agree with them immediatly.

This was not my father who wrote that stuff in this thread here, so dont tell it is about my father. Its simply about people that are like my father,

and that are proud of it, and that really pisses me off how someone can be proud of being an abusing, ignorant parent, telling so proud about how he gives his kids the responsibility for his own failures giving them a possibility to beat them again. Sorry, but I gotta puke.

Because you are telling exactly the same stuff? Excusing your own misbehaviour, declaring it as a must have, avoiding yourself from the truth that if you beat your child, that its not the child misbehaving but you?

Look at the things that were meant in this thread for beating their kids. Icecream? Is icecream really serious and something that disobedience is not an option? Two pages ago someone wrote proudly about beating her kids because of icecream. And a small child refusing to give hands before crossing the street? So I dont know, buts either the parent is simply too dumb to think about the easily existing opportunity just to grab the hand, or lift the child and go, or she likes to spank without a "really really serious cause". I mean avoiding to lift my child, doesnt seem that serious to me. People even admitted here in this thread and told (u]proudly[/u] about how they spank their kid when they dont entertain them sufficient or because they have self esteem issues and simply feel themselved opposed when a person doenst agree with them immediatly. So is avioding to go to a professional therapist, to make your own and the life of your child better, a "really, really serious cause" to beat your child?

This was not my father who wrote that stuff in this thread here, so dont tell it is about my father. Its simply about people that are like my father, and that are proud of it, and that really pisses me off how someone can be proud of being an abusing, ignorant parent, telling so proud about how he gives his kids the responsibility for his own failures giving them a possibility to beat them again. Sorry, but I gotta puke.

Sorry, but what a sh** and nonsense. The same lousy, dumb excuses where used from my father, to excuse his own failures and misbehavement. "No its not my fault that I do the failure and spank my child. No my wrong behavement its the childs faults."

So I dont know, but I seem to have schizophrenic diseases or whatever, because I am questioning myself why my mother simply needed to talk to me, and my educators in border schools didnt even understand why the hell I should be a problem child, when they never had a problem with me in 5 years. Could be because of them not being total dumbass. Or maybe there was another child that looked like me, but had a complete different behavement. The only idiot and as*hole ever having a problem was that idiot dumbass of a father who was simply to dumb, to mindweak and to shitheaded to educate a child. And because of him being unable to go to a doctor to work on his self esteem problem, he also simple was too dumb and to shitheaded to accept on his own, that HE is the problem, HE was the one misbehaving and the one that needed to get beaten according to his own rules.

So please, explain to me: How the hell is it possible, that I leave my home and my fathers presence and suddenly all the problems "I" create disappear? Do you think an alien kidnapped me and changed me with a clone? So I existed on, so if I was producing all the problems, how the hell can it be that all the problems vanished from one minute to the other, that I wasnt confronted any longer with my s**thead dumbass father? And why on earth was he the only one, that thought that I was behaving not aceptable? Why was it the same with my sister, getting A grades all the time, being a favorite of the teachers, .... but no in his eyes she is an unacceptable child that needs beating from now to then? Why did my grades go up from horrible to ok, the moment I was able to leave this shitpiece of an organic father?

Please tell me, because I simply dont understand why all the problem "I" produced simply vanished the moment this s**thead, that was the only one that could see all that problems, simply vanished out of my life? The moment this as*hole was no longer educating me, the moment the so called "problem child" that noone called a problem child beside him, disappeared.

Sorry, but no. If people are too dumb to educate their children propper its ok, because noone is perfect. But instead of seeking help to do job better, to create a dreamworld for the children, and blame the children to being responsible for the own failures and problems, definitely is not acceptable. The only problem "I" had, was the problem that I refused to accept the wrong behavement of my father. And it was right to do so, because if I had as my sister did, it would have ruined my life as it has my sisters who cant accept herself until nowadays, because of never being good enough.

Sorry, but no excuses for lousy parents, that are pushing their own failures upon their children, because of them being so sick that they are not able to face themselves as not being perfect. Better blame the child and beat it, instead of simply accepting: "Ok, I have to work on my behaviour. Lets see where I can get some help."

My view on spanking is it simply isn't necessary. Surplus to requirements.

On basic level it is operand conditioning, but you are not talking about lab rats here. With intelligent being there are alternative methods that are better.

Also quite a lot of the time it is the parents own neurotic behavior that is making thing worse. Also It not always obvious what is attention seeking behavior and what isn't, but you can learn the signs, but most importantly, quite a lot of people don't deal with attention seeking behavior correctly. Kids that get spanked or shouted at, get attention. This creates a neurotic cycle.

I do firmly believe the children need structure and genuine discipline (in fact there is some persuasive argument that there isn't enough structured teacher led learning in nursery schools), as child led activity is very popular ATM.