Not much discussion of current events or news here, but lots of politics and a dash of religion--> off to PPR.
Please bear the local guidelines in mind: viewtopic.php?t=204613
_________________
Don't believe the gender note under my avatar. A WP bug means I can't fix it.
People often make a mistake of over simplifying the situation.
The want to what they think is most righteous rather than what will actually solve the conflict in the present not in the past.
However they are basically feeding into the victim based neurosis on both side, which is prolonging the conflict.
Last edited by 0_equals_true on 20 Feb 2016, 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
This is largely historically inaccurate. For one it was the Arab nations and militias that attacked, not just just some Palestinians with sticks. These were trained and equipped forces.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fawzi_al-Qawuqji
was allied to Nazis
Eviction didn't happen till after the attack.
These posts reflect my position:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=290721#p6714099
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=290721#p6716529
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=298471#p6871555
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=298471#p6871572
My opinion is conflict resolution doesn't happen without incentive. There is no incentive for the political leaders on either side becuase they have staked their whole political careers on their entrenched positions.
Therefore the incentive need to be created, and it needs a drastic solution.
One thing is for certain is the mediators and envoys don't work, they just enable. Kerry's last ego project, not only was a total failure, you could argue it in part helped trigger what came next in Gaza. It was so patently obvious that Bibi and Abbas had appetite to meet. They did cooperate on one thing: Doing whatever it took to kill the process. However this lead to some really regrettable actions.
The solution I think has a better chance of working, is to degrade diplomatic relations with both sides and remove all the international mediators/envoys. Don't respond to any rhetoric, but tell them in no uncertain terms if they are not meeting regularly in direct talks they will both be sanctioned and this can be ratcheted up. Anything designed to stall should result in action. They should come up with their own solutions rather than rely international plans or charters.
" if they are not meeting regularly in direct talks they will both be sanctioned and this can be ratcheted up"
And what, exactly, do you think you should deprive the Palestinians of first? Or perhaps make the sanctions 100 times worse for the Israelis?
Seems a little out of balance. Could use a little more work/polish.
"Never Again"-the slogan of the Jewish Defense League
No, Iran has not done such a thing. However, there ARE Islamic extremists that are hellbent on destroying Israel. Hamas is a sunni terrorist group whilst Hezbollah is shiite.
You seem to blissfully ignore the role of Saudi Arabia which does not allow Jews to enter the country and funds terrorist groups like ISIS and AL QAIDA(among others) and secretly aims to destroy Israel.
However, Israel is acting in its own self-interest of self-preservation. But it still needs to focus on economic development so it can become fully self-sufficient.
In spite of not having diplomatic relations, they cooperate with each other by intelligence exchange specially about Iran. In a meeting at the Washington office of the Council on Foreign Relations, Anwar Eshki, a retired major general in the Saudi armed forces and Dore Gold, a former Israeli ambassador close to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, discussed "their common interests in opposing Iran.During the 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict, Middle East Eye editor David Hearst wrote an article claiming that Saudi Arabia was supportive of Israel's actions in the conflict, and that officials from Mossad and the Saudi intelligence agencies met
The Saudi ambassador to the United Kingdom, Mohammed bin Nawwaf bin Abdulaziz, denied that the Saudi government was allied with Israel, describing Israel's actions against civilians in Gaza as "crimes against humanity" - however he did not deny that the two countries had contact, saying that "any dealings by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia with Israel have been limited to attempts to bring about a plan for peace.According to a May 23 article by The Times of Israel, the London-based Arab paper Rai al-Youm reported that Israel had offered to provide Saudi Arabia with Iron Dome technology against rockets from bordering Yemen. The proposal was reportedly sent via American diplomats during a meeting in Amman, Jordan, and subsequently refused. Official sources have not confirmed the report
And what, exactly, do you think you should deprive the Palestinians of first? Or perhaps make the sanctions 100 times worse for the Israelis?
Seems a little out of balance. Could use a little more work/polish.
The idea would be to sanction the leaders first, sanction thing like defense capability, only later wider economic sanction if necessary.
The idea of using favoritism defeats the purpose of the is tactic. The real problem is the is a sense the rhetoric that you are using here, there are far too many interested outside parties. This make inaction very easy, becuase is easy for political user to avoid direct talk. In fact that is exactly what has been happening with the relationship with the international community form the beginning.
Fueling the same neurotic behaviour is not helpful or a humane thing to do. It empathetic perhaps but humanitarian becuase it will prolong the Palestinian people's suffering. There is a differnce between "caring" and caring.
Even with Israel's power they would fear being isolated from their allies, and it would be political suicide for them domestically as time goes on.
I suspect if there is real action it won't be too long before thing get moving. It is about understand the mechanics of political stalemates.
There is absolutely no reason why there couldn't be peace now. It lack of will and knowing a good thing when they see it.
Do you not know your middle east history for the last 50 years? Muslim countries do cooperate with western countries whenever there's a common enemy and once that enemy is vanquished or no longer a considerable problem they TURN on their western "friends"! The enemy of your enemy is not your friend. It behooves a vulnerable country like Israel to distrust other muslim countries; even Turkey.
There has been extensive cooperation between the US and Saudi Arabia since the early 70s and funding for Al Qaida and the 9/11 attacks came from what country? Iran??? NOPE! Saudi Arabia and its terrorist proxies in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
As for Pakistan, that is a country that already brandishes nuclear weapons and currently has missiles that can reach Israel. It's government is weak, unstable, and their military has been infiltrated by Islamic extremists. The danger of loose nukes from Pakistan, where some military officials covertly supply a nuclear warhead to terrorists(ISIS is already trying to obtain one) is very real and Israel should wake up to the threat Pakistan poses to them. If there is an Islamic revolution in Pakistan both Israel and India are in mortal danger of unprovoked nuclear attack.
Don't you think it's weird how the history of violence in the middle east, and the culture that fosters terrorism, can basically be traced back to when Israel was founded? Almost like Israel is actually the cause of all the middle east's problems?
Israeli military and Mossad are the original terrorists. It is the Israeli people who have conquered, stolen, destroyed, and massacred over six million Arabs since they were founded. Israeli leadership has consistently shown us that they do not value Arab lives, and in their occupied Palestinian territory they have practiced what can only be described as genocide. Israel are an extremely hostile and foreign colonial power, a Trojan Horse praying on the pity of others. A disease that cannot be allowed to spread.
Don't you think it's weird how the history of violence in the middle east, and the culture that fosters terrorism, can basically be traced back to when Israel was founded? Almost like Israel is actually the cause of all the middle east's problems?
Israeli military and Mossad are the original terrorists. It is the Israeli people who have conquered, stolen, destroyed, and massacred over six million Arabs since they were founded. Israeli leadership has consistently shown us that they do not value Arab lives, and in their occupied Palestinian territory they have practiced what can only be described as genocide. Israel are an extremely hostile and foreign colonial power, a Trojan Horse praying on the pity of others. A disease that cannot be allowed to spread.
It looks like we have another Jew hater
Last edited by frenchmanflats on 21 Feb 2016, 3:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
It looks like we have another anti-Semite here at WP. The Palestinian group "Black September" killed 10 innocent Israeli athletes in the Munich Olympics in 1972. Mossad hunted all those members of "Black September" and took its revenge.Jews do not blow up buses,buildings or cafes. Palestinians and Arabs do that. You would be happy if all the Jews were killed. I am willing you were taking pleasure and dancing in the streets when Saddams SCUDS slammed into Israel in 1991.
Check her age, she would have been 5-6 yrs old in 1991. Come to think of it you and I are probably the only ones on this thread who are old enough to recall the event!
Check her age, she would have been 5-6 yrs old in 1991. Come to think of it you and I are probably the only ones on this thread who are old enough to recall the event!
So what. They all did it. Remember the news reports of that time? Entire families in the PA were dancing and celebrating while Saddam's SCUDs hit Israel while the Israeli population were in the bomb shelters. I remember when Israel with threat of retaliation if those missiles carried poison gas. The reason why they did not respond is because the did not have the Friend and Foe Transponders from the United States.Identification, friend or foe (IFF) is an identification system designed for command and control. It enables military and national (civilian air traffic control) interrogation systems to identify aircraft, vehicles or forces as friendly and to determine their bearing and range from the interrogator. IFF may be used by both military and civilian aircraft.
