TERF's - Feminists that don't think trans women are women

Page 11 of 17 [ 260 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 ... 17 Next

Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,810

02 Jan 2020, 9:09 am

While there may be some differences in the brain, it doesn’t mean that these differences should necessarily dictate a person’s gender identity.

The differences go along with the notion of biological sex, which is still not the same thing as gender.

Also, male and female brains are more alike than they are different. It’s not like we’re a different species.

Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,959
Location:

02 Jan 2020, 9:16 am

The_Walrus wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

No. If someone is mean to me, they are mean to me, regardless of "status". I’d react identically whether a person is trans or cis. I still wouldn’t use their "status" against that someone.

That’s what I thought you meant. People often say "I don't care if you're X as long as you are nice to me" but I think that’s a corruption of "I don't care about X, I just care if you're nice to me" -- slightly different words but very different meaning.

"I don't care if it's Intel as long as my computer works."

"I don't care about CPU brands, I just care if my computer works."

Yes ... the difference is subtle, but I see it. The former carries an implication that Intel CPUs have some kind of stigma attached to them, while the latter expresses indifference toward all CPU brands (i.e., AMD, Intel, Zilog, et cetera).

_________________
The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.

Mikah
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 23 Oct 2015
Age: 38
Posts: 3,201
Location: England

02 Jan 2020, 9:17 am

magz wrote:

Thanks.

They claim there are differences on average, with significant overlap. It's like, women are typically shorter than men - but you can't tell one's sex from their height alone.

Absolutely, but average differences would easily explain away male or female over-representation in any given field. And that is the bugbear, if not raison d'etre of third wave feminism. This is the reason they get equally angry over studies like these or gender dysphoria, the existence of a "female brain" sweeps the leg of their whole ideology.

Twilightprincess wrote:

You are under the misconception that all feminists think the same. They don’t. You need to re-evaluate what the term actually means by looking at the definition I previously provided.

is there any common tenet shared by all definitions of feminism?

_________________
Behold! we are not bound for ever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory, Farewell!

Sahn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 14 Jan 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,504
Location: UK

02 Jan 2020, 9:19 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:

Hello. Are we having an argument?

the simple answer is "no".

Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,959
Location:

02 Jan 2020, 9:22 am

domineekee wrote:

RetroGamer87 wrote:

Hello. Are we having an argument?

The simple answer is "no".

The complicated answer is "It's complicated".

Bradleigh
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 May 2008
Age: 35
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,669
Location: Brisbane, Australia

02 Jan 2020, 9:27 am

Fnord wrote:

To a Trans Activist, if you're not a Trans Activist, you're a TERF.

To a TERF, if you're not a TERF, you're a Trans Activist.

Same old black-and-white nonsense from both extremes.

Wait, what? I am curious what your definition of a trans activist was, because I thought it was someone who spoke out. And a TERF is someone who specifically takes a feminist stance (radically). You are not going to call a burly homophobic man, who is very masculine, a TERF.

Painting extremes as black and white focused and purveyors of the discussion, does a disservice to the imbalance of positions. One side has the identities of people and wish to be treated fairly, while the other side want to be allowed to discriminate because they wrongly assume the other side are perverts or crazy.

_________________
Through dream I travel, at lantern's call
To consume the flames of a kingdom's fall

TwilightPrincess
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,810

02 Jan 2020, 9:29 am

Mikah wrote:

magz wrote:

Thanks.

They claim there are differences on average, with significant overlap. It's like, women are typically shorter than men - but you can't tell one's sex from their height alone.

Twilightprincess wrote:

You are under the misconception that all feminists think the same. They don’t. You need to re-evaluate what the term actually means by looking at the definition I previously provided.

is there any common tenet shared by all definitions of feminism?

Feminism is the advocacy of women’s rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes.

The “common tenet” is the advocacy of women’s rights. Feminists have different views about how these can be attained, maintained, or furthered.

Blanket statements that encompass all feminists are usually going to be incorrect.

Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,959
Location:

02 Jan 2020, 9:38 am

Twilightprincess wrote:

Feminism is the advocacy of women's rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes...

^ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - THIS - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ^

Your definition is spot-on. However, Egalitarian doctrines are generally characterized by the idea that all humans are equal in fundamental worth or moral status. That's why I believe that Egalitarianism is better than Feminism -- it expresses the equality of everybody including the sexes, the races, the cultures, et cetera.

Mikah
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 23 Oct 2015
Age: 38
Posts: 3,201
Location: England

02 Jan 2020, 9:42 am

Twilightprincess wrote:

Feminism is the advocacy of women’s rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes.

Correctamundo.

Now what does the purported existence of a male or female "brain" suggest about the bolded portion of that?

_________________
Behold! we are not bound for ever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory, Farewell!

Bradleigh
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 May 2008
Age: 35
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,669
Location: Brisbane, Australia

02 Jan 2020, 9:46 am

Mikah wrote:

You are acting like trans people cannot be feminists?
Here is a Wikipedia article on feminist view of transgenderism. It has mention of something like second wave feminists have a problem, but primarily third and fourth wave are accepting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_views_on_transgender_topics

@ Fnord
Egalitarian movements are also usually forwarded by men's rights movement people, who want permission to be cruel to women or just want to weaken feminist movements. While the ideal would say being egalitarian is the more progressive movement, in practice it is just a cover for anti-feminists, with no interest in solving things like toxic masculinity.

_________________
Through dream I travel, at lantern's call
To consume the flames of a kingdom's fall

TwilightPrincess
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,810

02 Jan 2020, 9:47 am

Mikah wrote:

Twilightprincess wrote:

Feminism is the advocacy of women’s rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes.

Correctamundo.

Now what does the purported existence of a male or female "brain" suggest about the bolded portion of that?

Different is not “not equal.” Different things are not necessarily less than or better than.

Mikah
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 23 Oct 2015
Age: 38
Posts: 3,201
Location: England

02 Jan 2020, 9:53 am

Twilightprincess wrote:

Different is not “not equal.”

Actually, it is. Different things cannot be equal.

_________________
Behold! we are not bound for ever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory, Farewell!

Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,959
Location:

02 Jan 2020, 9:54 am

"Different" is not necessarily "Not Equal".

TwilightPrincess
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,810

02 Jan 2020, 9:57 am

Mikah wrote:

Twilightprincess wrote:

Different is not “not equal.”

Actually, it is. Different things cannot be equal.

Different things are not necessarily less than or better than.

I’m not understanding what the problem is here. It’s fairly obvious.

Anyway, male and female brains aren’t that different.

TwilightPrincess
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,810

02 Jan 2020, 9:58 am

None of the feminists I’ve known personally have claimed that male and female brains are exactly alike.

Mikah
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 23 Oct 2015
Age: 38
Posts: 3,201
Location: England

02 Jan 2020, 10:07 am

Twilightprincess wrote:

None of the feminists I’ve known personally have claimed that male and female brains are exactly alike.

But they are certain that women don't get a fair shake?

_________________
Behold! we are not bound for ever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory, Farewell!

Page 11 of 17 [ 260 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 ... 17 Next

Jump to:

TERF's - Feminists that don't think trans women are women Post Reply New Topic

TERF's - Feminists that don't think trans women are women