To Woke, or not to Woke. Mr. Apu on the Simpsons.

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Dox47
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02 Sep 2022, 7:12 pm

cyberdad wrote:

Oh please, don't test my intelligence

So what you're saying is, you just made it up.

For the record, some day I'll point to this particular post as evidence that I'm not gratuitously mean, as that's a softball hanging over the plate that I'm declining to knock into low earth orbit.

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TwilightPrincess
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02 Sep 2022, 7:15 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

You ought to see the "Wild and Crazy Guys" sketch which was presented on Saturday Night Live about 1977.

It's extremely low comedy---but it's so "over the top" that I don't find it objectionable. It is a mockery of guys who spend their lives trying to "pick up chicks."

Of course I’ve seen it.

I don’t find it objectionable because it’s not about race or the male gender as a whole.

I didn’t find it funny because I was being hounded by two guys around when I watched it. It was an awkward situation that lasted for years. (The situation was cultural and circumstantial; my personal charms are few.)

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Dox47
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02 Sep 2022, 7:18 pm

Oh, look at what I found with a single Google search that took 2 minutes:

https://fiscalpolicy.org/wp-content/upl ... Street.pdf

Quote:

Immigrants’ role in Main Street
businesses is striking. While accounting
for 16 percent of the labor force nationally
and 18 percent of business owners,
immigrants make up 28 percent of Main
Street business owners. And, immigrants
play an even bigger role in certain Main
Street businesses. Data from 2013, the most
recent year available, show that in the U.S.
as a whole immigrants make up 61 percent
of all gas station owners, 58 percent of dry
cleaners owners, 53 percent of grocery store
owners, 45 percent of nail salon owners, 43
percent of liquor store owners, 38 percent
of restaurant owners, and 32 percent of
both jewelry and clothing store owners

Underline is mine.

So, doesn't look like a lot of white people in that business generally, let alone monopolizing it while forcing poor immigrants to do the dangerous work.

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kraftiekortie
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02 Sep 2022, 7:20 pm

It is about ethnicity, though. The two guys were "Czechoslovaks."

I couldn't stand "Borat." I found it mean-spirited.

I must say it's horrible when one is hounded by people----and you feel compelled to be diplomatic about it. Sorry you had to go through that.

TwilightPrincess
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02 Sep 2022, 7:24 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

We certainly don’t have the same standards or expectations that we did during the 70s. I think that’s a good thing.

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kraftiekortie
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02 Sep 2022, 7:26 pm

Of course not. We have evolved from that.

TwilightPrincess
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02 Sep 2022, 7:26 pm

There used to be a skit on SNL that made fun of androgynous folks (Pat). That wouldn’t fly today and for good reason.

I don’t like mean-spirited comedy. I prefer storytelling.

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TwilightPrincess
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02 Sep 2022, 7:54 pm

What makes comedy “low” or “high?”

Physical comedy is generally depicted as being “low.” It’s not usually my thing, but after watching various silent films, I learned to appreciate the skill and talent that can go into making it.

As long as something isn’t hurtful in some way, I think it’s all good. One type of comedy isn’t inherently better than another. Well, if no one finds a routine funny, it’s probably bad…

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cyberdad
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02 Sep 2022, 7:56 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

I believe he was offering a slice of real life, plus comedy, with the character. There are many people of east Indian and Arab extraction who work (and own) convenience stores, and certainly risk their lives doing so.?

I actually don't think Greonig mean't to cause harm. But effectively he was exploiting several stereotypes simply to get a few laughs. It's relevant that Hank Azaria has stepped down from the role as he would find it difficult to justify doing racist stereotype voices when he isn't a member of that group. A lot of people actually cringe when Canadian Indian comedian Russell Peters does Indian accents (although he's actually quite good unlike Azaria) although he grew up in Canada and so the only accents he was hearing was his parents.

cyberdad
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02 Sep 2022, 7:58 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

I couldn't stand "Borat." I found it mean-spirited.
.

Borat is horribly inaccurate. Kazakh people are turko-Mongol and look and act nothing like Sacha-Coen Baron's character. Borat acts and behaves like a provincial Russian.

cyberdad
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02 Sep 2022, 8:02 pm

Dox47 wrote:

So, doesn't look like a lot of white people in that business generally, let alone monopolizing it while forcing poor immigrants to do the dangerous work.

You really have no grasp of the real world do you? Immigrants don't come with wads of cash to buy out these businesses, They work for several decades (whether it be US, Canada, UK or Australia) night and day to not only pay for their children's education but to put instalments of their accumulated life savings toward buying out these businesses. Currently a lot of them are owned by Indians and Arabs but for several decades they all had to work for wh***y.

What you see as opportunism to me looks like sheer hard work and sacrifice,

ironpony
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02 Sep 2022, 8:55 pm

Oh I see, my mistake. But if Indian immigrants are forced to work at convenience stores, because white people will not hire them for better, jobs, wouldn't it be the same thing if the situation was flipped and a white person immigrated to India, and wouldn't Indians give him/her the more crappy jobs? Or would that make employers in India racist as well, for not hiring foreigners for better jobs as well?

Dox47
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02 Sep 2022, 9:08 pm

cyberdad wrote:

You really have no grasp of the real world do you? Immigrants don't come with wads of cash to buy out these businesses, They work for several decades (whether it be US, Canada, UK or Australia) night and day to not only pay for their children's education but to put instalments of their accumulated life savings toward buying out these businesses. Currently a lot of them are owned by Indians and Arabs but for several decades they all had to work for w****y.

What you see as opportunism to me looks like sheer hard work and sacrifice,

Still making up things and attributing them to me, huh?

I still don't see anything backing up any of your statements, which I didn't really expect because we both know you pulled them from the same place you pull all of your other "facts", straight out of your ass. If you could prove your point, you would because then you could shut me up, but you can't so you won't, as is your custom.

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Last edited by Dox47 on 02 Sep 2022, 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
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02 Sep 2022, 10:24 pm

Beavis and Butt-Head, the 3 Stooges: low comedy.

The Marx Brothers, “Barney Miller”: high comedy.

Gulliver’s Travels: high satire

Tim_Tex
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02 Sep 2022, 10:30 pm

cyberdad wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

I couldn't stand "Borat." I found it mean-spirited.
.

Borat is horribly inaccurate. Kazakh people are turko-Mongol and look and act nothing like Sacha-Coen Baron's character. Borat acts and behaves like a provincial Russian.

Neither Kazakh nor Russian was spoken in the movie. Borat was speaking Hebrew and Azamat was speaking Armenian (Ken Davitian, who played Azamat, is of Armenian heritage)

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ironpony
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02 Sep 2022, 11:14 pm

What I don't understand is why people immigrate to another country, knowing that they will be treated like second class citizens compared to their own country.

I know an immigrant from Chile for example, who use to work for the government, in their capital and he was at the top of the top back in the 80s. Now, after immigrating to where I am, Canada, he has a low rank in a factory job and cannot afford to retire.

Why did he give up a top government job where he was at the top, with all the advantages that come with that, only to become a second class citizen, in country that can be more racist towards immigrants? Why is that the dream, when you can rise higher in your own country in comparison?

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