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funeralxempire
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24 Jan 2024, 2:54 am

Yugoslav1945 wrote:
And yes, we need to contribute to healthy development and the only way to do that is...


...to punish teenagers who engage in normal developmental behaviour.

Because that's what you've proposed and are now trying to deflect from.


_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


Fnord
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24 Jan 2024, 2:55 am

Yugoslav1945 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Upon what have you based your standards of morality and evil?
. . . what I based them off is what I have experienced. I was taught that sex is only for 18 and above. I was taught to respect other cultures cause I was born in a multi-cultural town (sadly no LGBT in it much). I was taught about the great things Tito did unlike other commie cowards such as Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and the Juche leaders cause communism is not about killing millions of people to satisfy yourself but to show generosity to your people and see your communist state prosper because of your kindness.

So you see, these that I have developed from my traditional socialist family have helped me build my own variant of Marxism-Leninism.
In other words, your concepts of morality and evil are both relative and subjective, having been derived from the teachings of despots, tyrants, and Socialist dictators.

No wonder your concepts of morality and evil are both unrealistic and extreme.



Last edited by Fnord on 24 Jan 2024, 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

Yugoslav1945
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24 Jan 2024, 2:55 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Yugoslav1945 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I understand not having unwanted pregnancies among under-aged people, but how does this relate to avoiding Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder?
Yugoslav1945 wrote:
All men and women under MAROF would hold hands and show smile and joy . . .
Or else . . . what?


1. Sexual assault can lead to PTSD. Don't you know that victims live a life in fear of being raped and often have a bad time trying to adjust to their friendly partners because of the past experience?

2. Just let them hold hands! Is that too much to ask?


1) You redefining consensual sex acts as assaults doesn't make them assaults.

2) Yes, given the piss poor justifications given so far, and the terrible consequences you seek to impose if they won't acquiesce to your request, that is too much for the state to ask and any politician who seeks to impose such policies can be considered unfit without any further information being required.


Consensual sex is not allowed for underaged people. They're not 18 years old. They're under 18. You seem to sound like a post-modernist in the 1970s justifying pedophilia after the 1968 student protest in Paris all because you see it as "progressive".

And don't worry about the piss-poor justifications. They will soon become valuable once people learn to interpret me the right way.


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"In a socialist society such phenomena must and will disappear. In the old Yugoslavia national oppression by the great-Serb capitalist clique meant strengthening the economic exploitation of the oppressed peoples. This is the inevitable fate of all who suffer from national oppression."

- Josip Broz Tito (Ljubljana, 1948)


Yugoslav1945
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24 Jan 2024, 2:56 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Yugoslav1945 wrote:
And yes, we need to contribute to healthy development and the only way to do that is...


...to punish teenagers who engage in normal developmental behaviour.

Because that's what you've proposed and are now trying to deflect from.


I'm once again asking you to stop claiming that underaged sex is normal just because it is "consensual".


_________________
"In a socialist society such phenomena must and will disappear. In the old Yugoslavia national oppression by the great-Serb capitalist clique meant strengthening the economic exploitation of the oppressed peoples. This is the inevitable fate of all who suffer from national oppression."

- Josip Broz Tito (Ljubljana, 1948)


funeralxempire
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24 Jan 2024, 2:56 am

Yugoslav1945 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Yugoslav1945 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Yugoslav1945 wrote:
Consentual or not, it cannot be performed before 18. Either be friends or be in romance but you will not f*****g consent to sex before 18! It's unacceptable!


I understand that it's unacceptable to you, but how does that matter? It's clearly acceptable to society.

What I struggle to understand is how criminalizing sex acts between minors benefits a society in any way, especially when you intend on treating it more severely than most other crimes. Even if the laws already made criminal prosecution an option, how does ruining kids lives over normal developmental behaviour benefit anyone?

It seems petty and vindictive; and as though the concept of privacy isn't something that's ever occurred to you before.


Punishments will be more strict and severe for every possible crime, not just rape. It is beneficial to society that the human rights of children are protected from pedophilia and underaged intercourses in general because it yields NO positive result. Only PTSD and unwanted pregnancies! That's like trying to legalize incest just because it was "consentual".


I'd say contributing to healthy development is a significant net benefit.

Meanwhile I'm sure the way you'd address teenage intimacy won't ruin any lives, whether through PTSD or irrationally harsh legal penalties. Destroying people's lives to protect them is still destroying people's lives.

Your comment about incest is just a non-sequitur.


The judicial system needs to be reformed and taken very seriously. And yes, we need to contribute to healthy development and the only way to do that is punish crimes in a more serious manner to make criminals fear the law once again and not wander off too early from their cells. The police is being too kind and too corrupt. We need an anti-corruption purge immediately and we must make the death penalty legal again so that less criminals and more safety for everyone.


What you propose isn't socialism, just murderous tyranny.


_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


Fnord
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24 Jan 2024, 2:58 am

Yugoslav1945 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Yugoslav1945 wrote:
And yes, we need to contribute to healthy development and the only way to do that is...


...to punish teenagers who engage in normal developmental behaviour.

Because that's what you've proposed and are now trying to deflect from.


I'm once again asking you to stop claiming that underaged sex is normal just because it is "consensual".
The right to free speech shall not be abridged or revoked.

Just as you are free to post your nonsense, so are we free to rebut it.



Yugoslav1945
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24 Jan 2024, 2:59 am

Fnord wrote:
Yugoslav1945 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Upon what have you based your standards of morality and evil?
. . . what I based them off is what I have experienced. I was taught that sex is only for 18 and above. I was taught to respect other cultures cause I was born in a multi-cultural town (sadly no LGBT in it much). I was taught about the great things Tito did unlike other commie cowards such as Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and the Juche leaders cause communism is not about killing millions of people to satisfy yourself but to show generosity to your people and see your communist state prosper because of your kindness.

So you see, these that I have developed from my traditional socialist family have helped me build my own variant of Marxism-Leninism.
In other words, your concepts of morality and evil are both relative and subjective, having been derived from the teachings of despots, tyrants, and Socialist dictators.

No wonder your concepts of morality and evil are both unrealistic and extreme.


Back to the MAROF system. I still am going to push for the MAROF system even if other leftists come here and disagree with me. I can respect their disagreements but my energy for the establishment of a free and fair socialist institution is immeasuarable.


_________________
"In a socialist society such phenomena must and will disappear. In the old Yugoslavia national oppression by the great-Serb capitalist clique meant strengthening the economic exploitation of the oppressed peoples. This is the inevitable fate of all who suffer from national oppression."

- Josip Broz Tito (Ljubljana, 1948)


funeralxempire
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24 Jan 2024, 2:59 am

Yugoslav1945 wrote:
Consensual sex is not allowed for underaged people. They're not 18 years old. They're under 18. You seem to sound like a post-modernist in the 1970s justifying pedophilia after the 1968 student protest in Paris all because you see it as "progressive".

And don't worry about the piss-poor justifications. They will soon become valuable once people learn to interpret me the right way.


Imagine trying to insist high school kids hooking up with high school kids is somehow connected to pedophilia.

Your justifications will still fail to justify your desired policies, no matter how long the experiment is allowed to play out.

But hey, if you're opposed to my tyranny you're with the pedos is a totally sound argument.


_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


Fnord
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24 Jan 2024, 3:00 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Yugoslav1945 wrote:
The judicial system needs to be reformed and taken very seriously. And yes, we need to contribute to healthy development and the only way to do that is punish crimes in a more serious manner to make criminals fear the law once again and not wander off too early from their cells. The police is being too kind and too corrupt. We need an anti-corruption purge immediately and we must make the death penalty legal again so that less criminals and more safety for everyone.
What you propose isn't socialism, just murderous tyranny.
Seconded.

Socialism occurs when the producers own the means of production; NOT when the government dictates moral behavior.



Yugoslav1945
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24 Jan 2024, 3:00 am

Fnord wrote:
Yugoslav1945 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Yugoslav1945 wrote:
And yes, we need to contribute to healthy development and the only way to do that is...


...to punish teenagers who engage in normal developmental behaviour.

Because that's what you've proposed and are now trying to deflect from.


I'm once again asking you to stop claiming that underaged sex is normal just because it is "consensual".
The right to free speech shall not be abridged or revoked.

Just as you are free to post your nonsense, so are we free to rebut it.


You're right on that one.

I will still however provide logical disagreement and say that underaged sex, regardless if it is consensual, is not acceptable.


_________________
"In a socialist society such phenomena must and will disappear. In the old Yugoslavia national oppression by the great-Serb capitalist clique meant strengthening the economic exploitation of the oppressed peoples. This is the inevitable fate of all who suffer from national oppression."

- Josip Broz Tito (Ljubljana, 1948)


Yugoslav1945
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24 Jan 2024, 3:01 am

Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Yugoslav1945 wrote:
The judicial system needs to be reformed and taken very seriously. And yes, we need to contribute to healthy development and the only way to do that is punish crimes in a more serious manner to make criminals fear the law once again and not wander off too early from their cells. The police is being too kind and too corrupt. We need an anti-corruption purge immediately and we must make the death penalty legal again so that less criminals and more safety for everyone.
What you propose isn't socialism, just murderous tyranny.
Seconded.

Socialism occurs when the producers own the means of production; NOT when the government dictates moral behavior.


And the producers will own the means of production in my socialism. Because I will push for Market Socialism and make them distribute first to the general population in my country and have them distribute the remaining surplus abroad.


_________________
"In a socialist society such phenomena must and will disappear. In the old Yugoslavia national oppression by the great-Serb capitalist clique meant strengthening the economic exploitation of the oppressed peoples. This is the inevitable fate of all who suffer from national oppression."

- Josip Broz Tito (Ljubljana, 1948)


Fnord
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24 Jan 2024, 3:01 am

Yugoslav1945 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Yugoslav1945 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Upon what have you based your standards of morality and evil?
. . . what I based them off is what I have experienced. I was taught that sex is only for 18 and above. I was taught to respect other cultures cause I was born in a multi-cultural town (sadly no LGBT in it much). I was taught about the great things Tito did unlike other commie cowards such as Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and the Juche leaders cause communism is not about killing millions of people to satisfy yourself but to show generosity to your people and see your communist state prosper because of your kindness. So you see, these that I have developed from my traditional socialist family have helped me build my own variant of Marxism-Leninism.
In other words, your concepts of morality and evil are both relative and subjective, having been derived from the teachings of despots, tyrants, and Socialist dictators. No wonder your concepts of morality and evil are both unrealistic and extreme.
Back to the MAROF system. I still am going to push for the MAROF system even if other leftists come here and disagree with me. I can respect their disagreements but my energy for the establishment of a free and fair socialist institution is immeasuarable.
Then you do not understand Socialism.



Yugoslav1945
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24 Jan 2024, 3:02 am

Fnord wrote:
Yugoslav1945 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Yugoslav1945 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Upon what have you based your standards of morality and evil?
. . . what I based them off is what I have experienced. I was taught that sex is only for 18 and above. I was taught to respect other cultures cause I was born in a multi-cultural town (sadly no LGBT in it much). I was taught about the great things Tito did unlike other commie cowards such as Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and the Juche leaders cause communism is not about killing millions of people to satisfy yourself but to show generosity to your people and see your communist state prosper because of your kindness. So you see, these that I have developed from my traditional socialist family have helped me build my own variant of Marxism-Leninism.
In other words, your concepts of morality and evil are both relative and subjective, having been derived from the teachings of despots, tyrants, and Socialist dictators. No wonder your concepts of morality and evil are both unrealistic and extreme.
Back to the MAROF system. I still am going to push for the MAROF system even if other leftists come here and disagree with me. I can respect their disagreements but my energy for the establishment of a free and fair socialist institution is immeasuarable.
Then you do not understand Socialism.


There are many variants of authoritarian socialism that differ from the original theories regarding a socialist society. You have many figures who developed their own thoughts on how to achieve socialism and move to communism.


_________________
"In a socialist society such phenomena must and will disappear. In the old Yugoslavia national oppression by the great-Serb capitalist clique meant strengthening the economic exploitation of the oppressed peoples. This is the inevitable fate of all who suffer from national oppression."

- Josip Broz Tito (Ljubljana, 1948)


Fnord
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24 Jan 2024, 3:05 am

Yugoslav1945 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Socialism occurs when the producers own the means of production; NOT when the government dictates moral behavior.
And the producers will own the means of production in my socialism. Because I will push for Market Socialism and make them distribute first to the general population in my country and have them distribute the remaining surplus abroad.
Socialism does not address morality or the concept of evil; nor does it require the government to provide sex slaves to 18-year-old virgins or criminalize underaged teenagers for having sex.

What you are proposing is NOT a Socialistic economy; what you are proposing is another Totalitarian regime.

Tito would be proud.



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24 Jan 2024, 3:07 am

Yugoslav1945 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
The right to free speech shall not be abridged or revoked.  Just as you are free to post your nonsense, so are we free to rebut it.
You're right on that one.  I will still however provide logical disagreement and say that underaged sex, regardless if it is consensual, is not acceptable.
If your only justification for posting nonsense is that you have the right to do so, then your claims are without merit of their own.



funeralxempire
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24 Jan 2024, 3:07 am

To paraphrase Emma Goldman, I don't want any part of your revolution if it's going to make intruding into the romantic lives of children a policy.

It's one thing for a government to accidentally become that intrusive because it's never faced checks and balances before, but when it's part of the fundamentals of what you'd like to pursue, that's kinda disturbing. If a local socialist party tried to promote the sorts of policies towards minors discussed here, I'd be looking into other local socialist parties.


_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.