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visagrunt
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24 Aug 2010, 4:53 am

Hanotaux wrote:
^ Fine.................. I feel differently about all of this though

I feel no need to restate anything.......... I already explained how I felt that since the Irish, English, Germans, etc, were all white people(s), that would make eventual integration more natural than that between whites and incoming non-whites. I hope it doesn't happen anyway to preserve the uniqueness of both whites and various non-white cultures. I'd rather see everyone's culture preserved than just one beige mass with the same pop-culture. I see nothing natural or desireable about diversity or the projected outcome of a multicultural/brown-uniracial society.

I'm glad though, honestly, that all of you with a couple exceptions are apparently happy and well-adjusted to diversity and have had positive experiences with multiculturalism. I'm glad for you that you are able to embrace your fates for better or worse.

Diversity was the dominant culture I was raised in. Having AS, I feel that my natural instinct was to revolt against that diverse instant-gratification culture. I saw diversity as superficial, destructive, and violent, and many other negative superlatives.

It seems though that many of you are in some sort of reaction against what you perceive as "the white conservative racist establishment." Honestly, I see diversity, multiculturalism, the liberal media and schools, as being the catalyst for conformity in the country, and those that resist these pressures as the ones fighting for their independence. I can see where you are coming from about resisting right-wingers as well though. I think there is a truth and legitimacy to both sides TBH. It seems sometimes like a few leftists on this forum can be insulting and overbearing in how they present their arguements, and demand acceptance of their ethos from those that disagree.................It seems like dissenters are just ovewhelmed with massive point-counterpoint block-quote posts based on lots of superficial fine-print differences until the whole debate just becomes an infinite back-and-forth kind of thing with no real meaning anymore.......... I suppose if you grew up in a predominately white suburb and went to a majority white school with AS, you may well feel disenchanted with that establishment and seek your own self-expression. More power to you if this is your case.

My revolt, however, was to be white and retain my white Euro-centric identity as what I perceived as the minority influences bombarding me everywhere.

All of the "cool white kids" I ever knew growing up(the ones who were commonly accepted as cool by the consensus,) completely embraced the MTV rapper culture and all of that. So that was my revolt against both them and the minority students who I perceived as getting privileged status.


I think we are starting to speak different languages.

Diversity, to me, does not mean homogeneity--precisely the opposite. I, as a white person of British heritage do not start to adopt the culture of the Punjabi family that lives next door. Rather, diversity suggests that we are a stronger, more vibrant community when I am in a position to live in the context of my culture and they are free to do the same.

Canada has, for the last 40 years or so, rejected the model of the "melting pot" in favour of a policy of multiculturalism. The former implies various cultures getting subsumed by one, overarching culture, that is an amalgam of them all (rather like your "beige mass." But multiculturalism is about maintaining cultural distinctiveness.

So, the question I put is, "Should immigrants shed their cultural and religious identity at the customs hall, and adopt the "beige mass" as their cultural identity, or should they retain their distinctiveness within American society?"


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BigK
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24 Aug 2010, 5:43 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
I think it's time to stop debating on this topic. If there is something positive to post, go for it, but there isn't much point in continuing to go point and counter-point; it's just tearing at people at this point and I'm rather sorry to have inadvertently contributed to it.


Most of the boards I visit have a simple rule that makes life a lot easier for the Mods. "No politics, no religion". ;)

If there is going to be a PPR board at all there is no point pulling the plug when ever anything interesting comes up.

The endless round of Christian, Muslim, Atheist baiting get's a little dull after a while. ;)


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DW_a_mom
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24 Aug 2010, 11:23 am

BigK wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
I think it's time to stop debating on this topic. If there is something positive to post, go for it, but there isn't much point in continuing to go point and counter-point; it's just tearing at people at this point and I'm rather sorry to have inadvertently contributed to it.


Most of the boards I visit have a simple rule that makes life a lot easier for the Mods. "No politics, no religion". ;)

If there is going to be a PPR board at all there is no point pulling the plug when ever anything interesting comes up.

The endless round of Christian, Muslim, Atheist baiting get's a little dull after a while. ;)


After 11 pages it seemed like there really weren't any new arguments to make, and the attacks were pretty repetitive, and I knew people were getting upset. So, that was my effort to calm it down. Got to try, right? Particularly since I think my ill-timed modding effort was part of the problem.

The last few posts are much more productive and less hurtful. I'm not going to claim that is because people decided to listen to me; I think what I posted was more a statement of fact on where the evolution of the thread was.

I really, really do NOT want new parties to jump in right now, read old discussion, and revive attack. I posted mostly as a way for people to SEE quickly that things had gone past that point, so they might avoid the temptation. (bolded for the scanning public; this is not really a statement made to you)

But I am curious, since you are aware of this thread - what do you feel about it? Not about anyone or any post in particular, but the overall discussion and variety of positions?


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BigK
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24 Aug 2010, 1:56 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
But I am curious, since you are aware of this thread - what do you feel about it? Not about anyone or any post in particular, but the overall discussion and variety of positions?


I have been angered and saddened by the thread.

But then a bit of anger and sadness is a small price to pay to hear honest opinions honestly put.
(Especially by people who may not wish to go anywhere near me in real life.) ;)

I'd let it go as long as people are not abusing each other (too much ;) ).


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DW_a_mom
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24 Aug 2010, 3:22 pm

BigK wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
But I am curious, since you are aware of this thread - what do you feel about it? Not about anyone or any post in particular, but the overall discussion and variety of positions?


I have been angered and saddened by the thread.


Thanks for being willing to tell us that. I am sorry.

Quote:
But then a bit of anger and sadness is a small price to pay to hear honest opinions honestly put.
(Especially by people who may not wish to go anywhere near me in real life.) ;)

I'd let it go as long as people are not abusing each other (too much ;) ).


And thanks for being gracious about it all.

Life is full of unhappy truths. We aren't a utopia, and I'm not convinced human nature will ever let us be one.

I remember hearing about a lecturer (who is black, btw) who does diversity training for corporations. In his training, he says the first step is for everyone (white, black, purple, whatever) to admit they are racist. In some way or another. As in, even if a person believes in equality and act towards it, can they really say that there is no part of themselves that instinctively gravitates towards people that look the same or have the same background as they do? Most people do; but there are different degrees to it, and different ideas about advocating or fighting it. His point was, you can't rise above what you won't admit exists. So, he asks everyone to admit it. Then he asks them what they are doing to DO about it. Not as a big gesture, but in their own lives, with the little things. Where you shop, how you associate with people, and all that.

I like to believe that most of us do try to do something about it, but I don't know how far the average person actually gets.

Anyway. Thank you.


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skafather84
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24 Aug 2010, 3:29 pm

BigK wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
But I am curious, since you are aware of this thread - what do you feel about it? Not about anyone or any post in particular, but the overall discussion and variety of positions?


I have been angered and saddened by the thread.

But then a bit of anger and sadness is a small price to pay to hear honest opinions honestly put.
(Especially by people who may not wish to go anywhere near me in real life.) ;)

I'd let it go as long as people are not abusing each other (too much ;) ).


No offense...but are you black or do you just have Warren Sapp as your avatar?


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24 Aug 2010, 3:34 pm

Hanotaux wrote:
Quote:
So... you're in favor of our founding principles as long as they don't actually have to be applied to public policy?


Our 'founding principles' were set down by men who had no insight into the issues facing us in the 21st century.

i


What a bunch of dummies they were! The chose to be born in the 18th century.

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24 Aug 2010, 3:37 pm

skafather84 wrote:
BigK wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
But I am curious, since you are aware of this thread - what do you feel about it? Not about anyone or any post in particular, but the overall discussion and variety of positions?


I have been angered and saddened by the thread.

But then a bit of anger and sadness is a small price to pay to hear honest opinions honestly put.
(Especially by people who may not wish to go anywhere near me in real life.) ;)

I'd let it go as long as people are not abusing each other (too much ;) ).


No offense...but are you black or do you just have Warren Sapp as your avatar?


Who is Warren Sapp?



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24 Aug 2010, 3:42 pm

skafather84 wrote:
BigK wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
But I am curious, since you are aware of this thread - what do you feel about it? Not about anyone or any post in particular, but the overall discussion and variety of positions?


I have been angered and saddened by the thread.

But then a bit of anger and sadness is a small price to pay to hear honest opinions honestly put.
(Especially by people who may not wish to go anywhere near me in real life.) ;)

I'd let it go as long as people are not abusing each other (too much ;) ).


No offense...but are you black or do you just have Warren Sapp as your avatar?


I am black. Born in London UK to African parents.

Not American but I do like your football. ;)


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"How can it not know what it is?"


skafather84
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24 Aug 2010, 3:42 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
BigK wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
But I am curious, since you are aware of this thread - what do you feel about it? Not about anyone or any post in particular, but the overall discussion and variety of positions?


I have been angered and saddened by the thread.

But then a bit of anger and sadness is a small price to pay to hear honest opinions honestly put.
(Especially by people who may not wish to go anywhere near me in real life.) ;)

I'd let it go as long as people are not abusing each other (too much ;) ).


No offense...but are you black or do you just have Warren Sapp as your avatar?


Who is Warren Sapp?


One of the best DT's to ever play football. He, unfortunately, played for the Tampa Bay Bucs (rival to my hometown New Orleans Saints).


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DW_a_mom
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24 Aug 2010, 4:11 pm

skafather84 wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
BigK wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
But I am curious, since you are aware of this thread - what do you feel about it? Not about anyone or any post in particular, but the overall discussion and variety of positions?


I have been angered and saddened by the thread.

But then a bit of anger and sadness is a small price to pay to hear honest opinions honestly put.
(Especially by people who may not wish to go anywhere near me in real life.) ;)

I'd let it go as long as people are not abusing each other (too much ;) ).


No offense...but are you black or do you just have Warren Sapp as your avatar?


Who is Warren Sapp?


One of the best DT's to ever play football. He, unfortunately, played for the Tampa Bay Bucs (rival to my hometown New Orleans Saints).


LOL, I had no idea who the avatar was of, but I'm pretty sure I learned long ago from BigK's posting specifically about it that he was black. I think.

Hanotaux, after all, is NOT female.

Nor is Ferdinand.

I swear, this is the ONLY forum I've ever been on where people like to play with my head that way ... but I did figure it out long ago. The avatars are not the people, lol.


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Last edited by DW_a_mom on 24 Aug 2010, 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

visagrunt
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24 Aug 2010, 5:05 pm

I am, however, Linus van Pelt.

8)


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24 Aug 2010, 5:36 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
Hanotaux, after all, is NOT female.

Nor if Ferdinand.

I swear, this is the ONLY forum I've ever been on where people like to play with my head that way ... but I did figure it out long ago. The avatars are not the people, lol.

I always thought that skafather84 was a weird fetus, that Orwell was Orwell, that AG actually looked like that and that iamnotaparakeet was a bird :P


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24 Aug 2010, 5:48 pm

greenblue wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Hanotaux, after all, is NOT female.

Nor if Ferdinand.

I swear, this is the ONLY forum I've ever been on where people like to play with my head that way ... but I did figure it out long ago. The avatars are not the people, lol.

I always thought that skafather84 was a weird fetus, that Orwell was Orwell, that AG actually looked like that and that iamnotaparakeet was a bird :P


And from the earlier part of my time here, you would have been both Jonathan Archer, T'pol, and random patterns combined. :P



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02 Dec 2010, 11:13 am

Surely anyone who spells it "Hindoo" must be one of those terrible awful racists?

Not very sensitive of Jefferson was it?



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02 Dec 2010, 8:34 pm

English spelling even of ENGLISH was far from standardised - that is VERY recent in language history. Names of foreign peoples - they made the best stab at it they could.

Nothing what happened to thousands of names passing through Ellis Island.

My great grandfather was Buzzelle - which HAD been Buzzel - which once was Boswell - which was once de Boseville.