Atheists - why?

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Did 'I'?The hitting of keys at the registration page is just some bio-chemical process.

Last edited by 01001011 on 09 May 2011, 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

His mind was too befuddled from all your Gaps allusions.

I do not shop at the Gap, I do not buy into the Gap theory, mine is not the "God of the Gaps", and my zip is in order.

Generation gap I acknowledge

Aw, Philo! You're slipping!

I don't know that there really is a "gap" between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 any more than the next guy, but you gotta admit the mere possibility of it is fascinating.

I don't shop at the Gap, either. Someone bought me a nice Gap shirt, which I wear sometimes as part of the regular work-shirt rotation during cold weather and Sundays. If it had been Old Navy, it would have gone to the circular file.

Number 1 Son patronizes Old Navy at times, but I would rather not. LL bean is not.

The Genesis Gap -

for "do not buy into" read "have not encountered sufficient evidence". I do not diss and ridicule it as I do some suggested exegesis, but I stand back until further notice.

The hypothesis kis not without some fadscination.

But let us not say too much lest people who have never heard of it start hitting on THAT.

Not really. This one is a direct factual statement. You're dishonest.

Ah, you're claiming it's a blatant assertion with no evidence, then.

We should see you believing in young earth creationism in no time!

I understand, and I hope to help (or that I might have already helped) with that.


I have been going back and trying to keep up with posts here, so please forgive me if you now actually do understand ...

Back in my days as a self-professed "Christian", I "believed in" lots of things ... but "believe in" just never got me anywhere. So today, I simply believe ... and sans any more "believe in" anything. You or anyone else might think I am just playing with words there, but I am not ... and yet I find myself at a loss to say anything "spiritual" in any way a merely-philosophical mind might truly comprehend. So then, and again:

I had "believed in the 'Christian "God"'" even long before I ever drank, and then one day I wrote this little piece of verse:

"To Florida I am going, that's south,
"With a bottle and a joint in my mouth ...
"And I'll ne'er be back o'er this sou'ern-bound track
"Until I finish this poem ... and I have no intention of ever doing that."

Then several years later ...

"The time has come to finish this poem,
"Cause 'God", I know, is calling me hoem.
"His people up there are with me in prayer,
"And love me and want me, I knowem."

Just a few months later, however, I discovered those church people really did not want me around (since "drunk in church" just ain't cool, I guess) ... and there is where I now see myself as having been a delusional agnostic. I had always been told there is a "God" ...

But then Bill W. said this very well:

"To Christ I conceded the certainty of a great man, not too closely followed by those who claimed Him. His moral teaching - most excellent. For myself, I had adopted those parts which seemed convenient and not too difficult; the rest I disregarded.
"The wars which had been fought, the burnings and chicanery that religious dispute had facilitated, made me sick. I honestly doubted whether, on balance, the religions of mankind had done any good. Judging from what I had seen in Europe and since, the power of God in human affairs was negligible, the Brotherhood of Man a grim jest."
(page 11)

If you want to insist I had always at least believed there even is a God, I will not argue. But "believe in"? Nope, no way. I happen to be a first-born in a long line of first-borns, and about the third one back began a pattern of abandonment -- our mental images of "God" are often found in our images of our fathers -- even while yet being quite contemptibly religious (and yet actually almost as faithless as I had also become (after finding out their "Santa Claus" had been but a lie)).

So then, there I was in '81, faithless and hopeless, and there I remained until someone not long after took me by the hand and began teaching me how to live ... "God's way" (since my own manner of living had failed so miserably).

Last edited by leejosepho on 09 May 2011, 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Are you really going to pretend you were blithely-oblivious to this and the countless other threads regarding theistic belief or lack thereof being about the veracity of its existence as more than a human construct, and thought the question was about faith-based TRUST of a presumed-to-exist god-character?

That's just intellectual cowardice.

Last edited by Bethie on 09 May 2011, 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

You accuse me falsely.

Do I, now?



What part of this thread topic makes you think the discourse is about vested faith/trust in a de-facto existing god?
A mighty strange request to make of atheists.

Yes. I do not pretend.

Well, depends on the evidence! I'm not, for example, anti-evolution if we're talking wholesale. I have no doubts as to there being some truth to it. I do recognize, however, that certain types of data, just like any documented evidence, is subject to interpretation. And it is that which causes me to doubt certain parts of it.

What the evidence DOES strongly suggest is that the earth is older than a few thousand years. I do not doubt that God is powerful enough to bring about the universe with nothing more than a wink of His eye and end it just as easily. When you look at radioactive dating methods, the fossil record, and so forth, there really does seem to be a "before" kind of tone "In the beginning..." and an "after" in "Now the earth was formless..." Biblical evidence doesn't rule out a gap.

But like I said, I can't claim to "know" this is the case. If one believes in or promotes the Genesis gap theory, it would be wrong to cry "heretic!" The "how" of creation is irrelevant next mankind's need for the Savior.

Well, quite

Too many people think God is human and talks - or lies - like a human.

NOWHERE does the Christ talk about saluting or sp[ittin on any interpretation of scripture.

Just looking fora bit of consistency and offering a hand.

I'm not an atheist, because I can't prove God doesn't exist any more than you can prove he does.

I'm agnostic-- I know nothing, nor can I claim to know anything or offer proof either way.

But I may come across as atheist, because my life's actions are not dictated by any sort of religious principles. This means that I am an unapologetic hedonist-- and I don't live in fear of some sort of reprisal after death. I live based on moral and ethical principles that I have developed without any religious influence. Religion is not nor ever has been part of me. I view any sort of religious doctrine as mythology; I view the stories in the Bible the same way as I do the Greek myths.

My mom often says she thinks the quality of my life would increase if I "put some God into it." But it ain't happening until I see some proof.

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Check out my IMDB page!

Last edited by Daryl_Blonder on 09 May 2011, 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

This is not my battle to fight, but I'm wondering the same personally. If someone is not pursuing something in a confrontational manner, why make a confrontational answer?

kladky and I disagree STRONGLY on a lot of things, and in one line of discussion we pretty much came to a standstill. I admit that from time to time I can be a tough customer. But I really do try to avoid belittling or veiled, insulting language to express my thoughts. Disagree though we may, I admire kladky's calmness in expressing his views and his attempts at persuasion.

Such vitriol is unnecessary and reflects poorly on the one resorting to it. If a professed Christian comes in and does the same thing, I would understand the mocking language--not really justified, but at least understandable. Not meaning to sound self-righteous here, and I think kladky would agree with me on this, but I don't recall that either one of us has taken the atheists-are-poopy-heads approach in responding to challenges to our views--even when the atheists ARE guilty of the opposite offense.