Republicans succeed in ploy to increase unsafe abortions
Oodain
Veteran
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,
in essense if one found a way to remove the zef without the removal killing it would it then be okay when it inevitably dies from lack of.... well, everything.
_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//
the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.
I'm glad! Now the unborn child might eventually be guaranteed more safety! This is not the first time the government has made something illegal and leading it to be dangerous. If you murder someone with a kitchen knife let's say, you are thrown in jail, which is incredibly dangerous. Or if you deal drugs, you're involved in the dangerous underworld of drug cartels.
In other words OF COURSE IT'S UNSAFE BECAUSE IT'S ILLEGAL!! Let's stop worrying about the safety of breaking a law and start worrying about whether passing that law is ethically right or not. In the case of abortion, passing a law against it is long overdue.
<--- Before I'm cited as a religious bigot, I'd like to point out my passion for molecular biology / genetics as well as my lack of faith in any organized religion (atheist).
In other words OF COURSE IT'S UNSAFE BECAUSE IT'S ILLEGAL!! Let's stop worrying about the safety of breaking a law and start worrying about whether passing that law is ethically right or not. In the case of abortion, passing a law against it is long overdue.
<--- Before I'm cited as a religious bigot, I'd like to point out my passion for molecular biology / genetics as well as my lack of faith in any organized religion (atheist).
Abortions aren't illegal in most places... why would they be...?
_________________
A shot gun blast into the face of deceit
You'll gain your just reward.
We'll not rest until the purge is complete
You will reap what you've sown.
In other words OF COURSE IT'S UNSAFE BECAUSE IT'S ILLEGAL!! Let's stop worrying about the safety of breaking a law and start worrying about whether passing that law is ethically right or not. In the case of abortion, passing a law against it is long overdue.
<--- Before I'm cited as a religious bigot, I'd like to point out my passion for molecular biology / genetics as well as my lack of faith in any organized religion (atheist).
Abortions aren't illegal in most places... why would they be...?
You're correct, but any move that's made to make it illegal is responded with "but that will make them unsafe!!", my point is, it's not about safety, it's about what is or is not ethically correct.
Oodain
Veteran
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,
In other words OF COURSE IT'S UNSAFE BECAUSE IT'S ILLEGAL!! Let's stop worrying about the safety of breaking a law and start worrying about whether passing that law is ethically right or not. In the case of abortion, passing a law against it is long overdue.
<--- Before I'm cited as a religious bigot, I'd like to point out my passion for molecular biology / genetics as well as my lack of faith in any organized religion (atheist).
well then come withn your great moral argument to convince the world that it actually is unethical
i would think knowingly causing suffering would be immoral but i dont find the prevention of a conscoiusness to be immoral,
would it be immoral to stop an artificial conscoiusness or that of another species?
_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//
the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.
When you suggested that the unborn had different rights to the born. Human rights are 'inalienable'. If the unborn child is a human being, then it is entitled to the same rights and freedoms as a child that is born.
If humans had the right to life then food, shelter, water, healthcare, etc. would all be free.
Rights and entitlements are two different things, obviously.
Not in this case. If you had the right to survive, then whatever was necessary for you to survive would be provided.
What we have is the right to *try* to survive.
Rights do not assure you’ll survive.
It only says that you can expect to be allowed to survive without interference.
Example:
If you get struck by lightning and die then your rights have not been violated. The government cannot ban thunderstorms though I’m sure some of you would like them to try.
As far as this tiresome abortion topic goes it will never be settled.
Pro-life: Human life begins at conception and develops in the womb. The finished product is born about nine months later.
Pro-choice: There is no human life form until the very moment of delivery (sorcery I guess
I could give you a hundred arguments for why it's ethically wrong. However, I'll just give you a few thought experiments.
During your nine-month incubation in your mother's womb, she had the right to abort you even if she just felt like it. Let's say she actually did abort you, she would not have aborted some "inhuman parasite", she would have aborted you! You wouldn't be here to make these silly arguments! I suppose if you like to demean yourself by saying "yeah, I was some inhuman wretch but at least I lasted long enough to be born" then you can do that. However, what if your mother called you tomorrow and told you she wanted to abort you and almost did if not for some pro-life program that convinced her to have you? Would you consider yourself a hypocrite? Or find some way to rationalize it, I want a serious answer to this question because I'd like to know for serious psychological statistics if "pro-choice" has more psychopaths than "pro-life".
Now imagine a different scenario, in an alternate universe, galaxy far far away... just imagine! That you were born a week later because for one reason or another the pregnancy lasted longer than it should have (maybe you thought it was pretty comfy in there). Anyway, for that extra week you would be just as developed as if you were born on your real birthday! You would literally be genetically the same and just as developed. So what differentiates the non-human you and the human you? The fact that in one scenario you are on the outside of the womb, and in the other scenario - you're inside. So by all scientific definition, if you genetically the same AND as developed as a human being then you are a human being. So why was the 1-week-late version of you dubbed "inhuman"? Explain this to me!
Also, I thought I'd point out that prenatal testing is almost figured out for Autism. Now, looking back, after the innovation of prenatal testing for down syndrome, down syndrome children were aborted left and right because they were undesirable for some people. Less than 1/4 actually survived until birth. I'm sorry if you don't like hearing it, but the truth is, autism is not a popular character trait. Parents want smart, popular kids and some of them wont take the chance on their kid being socially awkward or in some cases mentally deficient. So, regardless of the cheerful feminist perspective you always hear about abortion - the fact is that it's also used in selective reproduction, and autism wont make the cut. ![]()
^^^^
I was exposed to German measles in utero. The doctor flat out told my mother that termination would be best. Since she had tried so hard to have me, she decided not to terminate. The doctor painted a worst case scenario.
_________________
Life is real ! Life is earnest!
And the grave is not its goal ;
Dust thou art, to dust returnest,
Was not spoken of the soul.
During your nine-month incubation in your mother's womb, she had the right to abort you even if she just felt like it. Let's say she actually did abort you, she would not have aborted some "inhuman parasite", she would have aborted you! You wouldn't be here to make these silly arguments! I suppose if you like to demean yourself by saying "yeah, I was some inhuman wretch but at least I lasted long enough to be born" then you can do that. However, what if your mother called you tomorrow and told you she wanted to abort you and almost did if not for some pro-life program that convinced her to have you? Would you consider yourself a hypocrite? Or find some way to rationalize it, I want a serious answer to this question because I'd like to know for serious psychological statistics if "pro-choice" has more psychopaths than "pro-life".
Now imagine a different scenario, in an alternate universe, galaxy far far away... just imagine! That you were born a week later because for one reason or another the pregnancy lasted longer than it should have (maybe you thought it was pretty comfy in there). Anyway, for that extra week you would be just as developed as if you were born on your real birthday! You would literally be genetically the same and just as developed. So what differentiates the non-human you and the human you? The fact that in one scenario you are on the outside of the womb, and in the other scenario - you're inside. So by all scientific definition, if you genetically the same AND as developed as a human being then you are a human being. So why was the 1-week-late version of you dubbed "inhuman"? Explain this to me!
If my mother had of aborted me, I would never have known. As such, I would not really care. It's like asking if I want to be cremated or buried, I will be dead. I don't really care.
The second scenario is more apt as an argument against late abortions (I believe it would be third trimester?), which I am against anyway.
_________________
A shot gun blast into the face of deceit
You'll gain your just reward.
We'll not rest until the purge is complete
You will reap what you've sown.
During your nine-month incubation in your mother's womb, she had the right to abort you even if she just felt like it. Let's say she actually did abort you, she would not have aborted some "inhuman parasite", she would have aborted you! You wouldn't be here to make these silly arguments! I suppose if you like to demean yourself by saying "yeah, I was some inhuman wretch but at least I lasted long enough to be born" then you can do that. However, what if your mother called you tomorrow and told you she wanted to abort you and almost did if not for some pro-life program that convinced her to have you? Would you consider yourself a hypocrite? Or find some way to rationalize it, I want a serious answer to this question because I'd like to know for serious psychological statistics if "pro-choice" has more psychopaths than "pro-life".
Now imagine a different scenario, in an alternate universe, galaxy far far away... just imagine! That you were born a week later because for one reason or another the pregnancy lasted longer than it should have (maybe you thought it was pretty comfy in there). Anyway, for that extra week you would be just as developed as if you were born on your real birthday! You would literally be genetically the same and just as developed. So what differentiates the non-human you and the human you? The fact that in one scenario you are on the outside of the womb, and in the other scenario - you're inside. So by all scientific definition, if you genetically the same AND as developed as a human being then you are a human being. So why was the 1-week-late version of you dubbed "inhuman"? Explain this to me!
If my mother had of aborted me, I would never have known. As such, I would not really care. It's like asking if I want to be cremated or buried, I will be dead. I don't really care.
The second scenario is more apt as an argument against late abortions (I believe it would be third trimester?), which I am against anyway.
And what is your opinion on the second half of my first argument? Let's say you WERE born and your mother gave you that kind of news. You are most certainly alive now so...
During your nine-month incubation in your mother's womb, she had the right to abort you even if she just felt like it. Let's say she actually did abort you, she would not have aborted some "inhuman parasite", she would have aborted you! You wouldn't be here to make these silly arguments! I suppose if you like to demean yourself by saying "yeah, I was some inhuman wretch but at least I lasted long enough to be born" then you can do that. However, what if your mother called you tomorrow and told you she wanted to abort you and almost did if not for some pro-life program that convinced her to have you? Would you consider yourself a hypocrite? Or find some way to rationalize it, I want a serious answer to this question because I'd like to know for serious psychological statistics if "pro-choice" has more psychopaths than "pro-life".
Now imagine a different scenario, in an alternate universe, galaxy far far away... just imagine! That you were born a week later because for one reason or another the pregnancy lasted longer than it should have (maybe you thought it was pretty comfy in there). Anyway, for that extra week you would be just as developed as if you were born on your real birthday! You would literally be genetically the same and just as developed. So what differentiates the non-human you and the human you? The fact that in one scenario you are on the outside of the womb, and in the other scenario - you're inside. So by all scientific definition, if you genetically the same AND as developed as a human being then you are a human being. So why was the 1-week-late version of you dubbed "inhuman"? Explain this to me!
If my mother had of aborted me, I would never have known. As such, I would not really care. It's like asking if I want to be cremated or buried, I will be dead. I don't really care.
The second scenario is more apt as an argument against late abortions (I believe it would be third trimester?), which I am against anyway.
And what is your opinion on the second half of my first argument? Let's say you WERE born and your mother gave you that kind of news. You are most certainly alive now so...
I'd tell her I was glad she didn't.
_________________
A shot gun blast into the face of deceit
You'll gain your just reward.
We'll not rest until the purge is complete
You will reap what you've sown.
I actually have no problem with less autistic people coming into the world as long as the ones that are currently alive don't get discriminated against.
The whole 'you would never have been born' argument doesn't affect me. I wouldn't be around to care? I can't wrap my head around why I should care about the possibility of having not been born.
_________________
Zombies, zombies will tear us apart...again.
"I claim an absolute right to be interested in the condition of the human fetus because … well, I used to be one myself." - Christopher Hitchens
I for one am glad that I was born and am shocked at how easy and legal it is for someone to have killed me. When I am and unborn, I am human and exactly as developed as I am supposed to be, that really ought to be enough to justify my existence.
_________________
Life is real ! Life is earnest!
And the grave is not its goal ;
Dust thou art, to dust returnest,
Was not spoken of the soul.
"I claim an absolute right to be interested in the condition of the human fetus because … well, I used to be one myself." - Christopher Hitchens
I for one am glad that I was born and am shocked at how easy and legal it is for someone to have killed me. When I am and unborn, I am human and exactly as developed as I am supposed to be, that really ought to be enough to justify my existence.
If you had of been aborted, you wouldn't have known. You simply would never have existed. Why would you care?
_________________
A shot gun blast into the face of deceit
You'll gain your just reward.
We'll not rest until the purge is complete
You will reap what you've sown.
During your nine-month incubation in your mother's womb, she had the right to abort you even if she just felt like it. Let's say she actually did abort you, she would not have aborted some "inhuman parasite", she would have aborted you! You wouldn't be here to make these silly arguments! I suppose if you like to demean yourself by saying "yeah, I was some inhuman wretch but at least I lasted long enough to be born" then you can do that. However, what if your mother called you tomorrow and told you she wanted to abort you and almost did if not for some pro-life program that convinced her to have you? Would you consider yourself a hypocrite? Or find some way to rationalize it, I want a serious answer to this question because I'd like to know for serious psychological statistics if "pro-choice" has more psychopaths than "pro-life".
Now imagine a different scenario, in an alternate universe, galaxy far far away... just imagine! That you were born a week later because for one reason or another the pregnancy lasted longer than it should have (maybe you thought it was pretty comfy in there). Anyway, for that extra week you would be just as developed as if you were born on your real birthday! You would literally be genetically the same and just as developed. So what differentiates the non-human you and the human you? The fact that in one scenario you are on the outside of the womb, and in the other scenario - you're inside. So by all scientific definition, if you genetically the same AND as developed as a human being then you are a human being. So why was the 1-week-late version of you dubbed "inhuman"? Explain this to me!
If my mother had of aborted me, I would never have known. As such, I would not really care. It's like asking if I want to be cremated or buried, I will be dead. I don't really care.
The second scenario is more apt as an argument against late abortions (I believe it would be third trimester?), which I am against anyway.
And what is your opinion on the second half of my first argument? Let's say you WERE born and your mother gave you that kind of news. You are most certainly alive now so...
I'd tell her I was glad she didn't.
That sounds a bit hypocritical and rude, don't you think? You're glad your mother didn't abort you, but you want any other mother to be able to do that. "I'm glad I'm not dead because of abortion, but I don't mind that other people are dying because of it."
