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Ronald Reagan was a:
Hero! 25%  25%  [ 14 ]
Villain! 53%  53%  [ 29 ]
Meh, I don't know. Just show the results. 22%  22%  [ 12 ]
Total votes : 55

SpiritBlooms
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17 Jun 2012, 6:02 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Some details

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_cr ... -clips.htm

If the American Embassy hostages had been released in October, 1980, this would have given Jimmy Carter a greater chance of winning re-election. Officials in Ronald Reagan's presidential campaign, including future CIA Director, William Casey, made a secret deal with Iran to delay the release of the American hostages until after the election. In return, the United States arranged for Israel to ship weapons to Iran.

Okay - villain! That's disgusting.



ArrantPariah
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17 Jun 2012, 6:31 pm

Master_Pedant
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17 Jun 2012, 6:41 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Reagan inherited the train wreck that Jimmy Carter made. During the Carter years the U.S. was suffering from stagflation.


So you're blaming Jimmy Carter for an OPEC induced supply shock (which was the cause of stagflation)? What, was Carter in the room instructing the middle east to withhold oil??! !

What the American hero known as Jimmy Carter did was act responsibly and instituted energy efficiency standards in response to the supply shock that helped the US in the mid to long term. He was one of the only US presidents in the last half-century to meaningfully push for energy alternatives in a big way (the actor who played president, by contrast, tore solar panels off the White House and decried sustainable energy policy).


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ruveyn
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17 Jun 2012, 7:33 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Some details

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_cr ... -clips.htm

If the American Embassy hostages had been released in October, 1980, this would have given Jimmy Carter a greater chance of winning re-election. Officials in Ronald Reagan's presidential campaign, including future CIA Director, William Casey, made a secret deal with Iran to delay the release of the American hostages until after the election. In return, the United States arranged for Israel to ship weapons to Iran.


You have proof for this? Present it.

ruveyn



Kraichgauer
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17 Jun 2012, 7:59 pm

ruveyn wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Some details

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_cr ... -clips.htm

If the American Embassy hostages had been released in October, 1980, this would have given Jimmy Carter a greater chance of winning re-election. Officials in Ronald Reagan's presidential campaign, including future CIA Director, William Casey, made a secret deal with Iran to delay the release of the American hostages until after the election. In return, the United States arranged for Israel to ship weapons to Iran.


You have proof for this? Present it.

ruveyn


The CIA had done a lot to cover it's - and Reagan's - tracks.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



ArrantPariah
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17 Jun 2012, 8:54 pm

ruveyn wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Some details

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_cr ... -clips.htm

If the American Embassy hostages had been released in October, 1980, this would have given Jimmy Carter a greater chance of winning re-election. Officials in Ronald Reagan's presidential campaign, including future CIA Director, William Casey, made a secret deal with Iran to delay the release of the American hostages until after the election. In return, the United States arranged for Israel to ship weapons to Iran.


You have proof for this? Present it.

ruveyn


Just read the links I provided. Ronald Reagan and his cronies were consumed with evil.



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17 Jun 2012, 9:34 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:

Just read the links I provided. Ronald Reagan and his cronies were consumed with evil.


Those links would not stand up in court. I am talking about evidence that meets judicial and legal standards.

ruveyn



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17 Jun 2012, 9:38 pm

You may read the book by Mr. Bani-Sadr, if you wish.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/008040 ... e=&seller=



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18 Jun 2012, 10:39 am

Another book on the subject: October Surprise by Gary Sick.

http://www.amazon.com/October-Surprise- ... 0812920872

This wasn't the first time that the Republican Party, when out of power and seeking election, had negotiated bad deals for America to improve its election chances.

Quote:
During the Vietnam War, the Republican challenger Richard Nixon feared a last-minute deal to end US involvement in the Vietnam war by President Lyndon Johnson, which would earn incumbent Vice-President Hubert Humphrey enough votes to win election as President of the United States in the 1968 Presidential election. After President Johnson announced a halt of the bombing of North Vietnam on October 30, 1968, Humphrey surged ahead of Nixon in the polls where days before they had been in a dead heat. Immediately attention was focused to the Paris negotiations where Nixon campaign foreign policy advisor Henry Kissinger was stationed.

In her autobiography, Anna Chennault directly addressed the allegation of an October Surprise when North Vietnam negotiators after speaking with ranking Nixon campaign officials (headed by Kissinger) walked away from the American delegation under President Johnson after being offered a better deal if negotiations began after the election. In a phone conversation between President Johnson and Minority Leader Senator Everett Dirksen, Johnson singled out the Nixon campaign as the primary reason why negotiations had stalled and called him and his party "traitors". The Johnson administration never disclosed this change in fortunes or why the walkout occurred since it might hang a cloud of illegitimacy between both candidates should either one win over the other.


Of course, the war dragged on for several more years, and Tricky Dicky put forward the seductive slogan "Peace with Honor."

And, what did Henry Kissinger finally announce, 12 days before Tricky Dicky's re-election? "Peace is at hand!"



SpiritBlooms
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18 Jun 2012, 11:45 am

ruveyn wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Some details

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_cr ... -clips.htm

If the American Embassy hostages had been released in October, 1980, this would have given Jimmy Carter a greater chance of winning re-election. Officials in Ronald Reagan's presidential campaign, including future CIA Director, William Casey, made a secret deal with Iran to delay the release of the American hostages until after the election. In return, the United States arranged for Israel to ship weapons to Iran.


You have proof for this? Present it.
I'm curious. If you had enough evidence for you to consider it proof - however much that might be - would it change your opinion of him?



ArrantPariah
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18 Jun 2012, 11:49 am

SpiritBlooms wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Some details

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_cr ... -clips.htm

If the American Embassy hostages had been released in October, 1980, this would have given Jimmy Carter a greater chance of winning re-election. Officials in Ronald Reagan's presidential campaign, including future CIA Director, William Casey, made a secret deal with Iran to delay the release of the American hostages until after the election. In return, the United States arranged for Israel to ship weapons to Iran.


You have proof for this? Present it.
I'm curious. If you had enough evidence for you to consider it proof - however much that might be - would it change your opinion of him?


Remember, too, that your hero Ollie North shredded quite a lot of evidence.

Here is some more coverage of the issues.

http://consortiumnews.com/2011/05/12/ji ... se-doubts/



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18 Jun 2012, 12:30 pm

One of Ronald Reagan's proudest achievements, beyond quadrupling the national debt, was deregulating the Savings and Loan Industry.

Which, of course, led to massive failures of Savings and Loan institutions, with taxpayers on the hook for more than $100 billion.

http://useconomy.about.com/od/grossdome ... Crisis.htm

But, as the shyte didn't really hit the fan until he had left office, George H.W. Bush Sr. recoups the blame for this one, and Reagan remains an awesome hero in the eyes of his star-struck fans.



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18 Jun 2012, 4:47 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Another book on the subject: October Surprise by Gary Sick.

http://www.amazon.com/October-Surprise- ... 0812920872

This wasn't the first time that the Republican Party, when out of power and seeking election, had negotiated bad deals for America to improve its election chances.

Quote:
During the Vietnam War, the Republican challenger Richard Nixon feared a last-minute deal to end US involvement in the Vietnam war by President Lyndon Johnson, which would earn incumbent Vice-President Hubert Humphrey enough votes to win election as President of the United States in the 1968 Presidential election. After President Johnson announced a halt of the bombing of North Vietnam on October 30, 1968, Humphrey surged ahead of Nixon in the polls where days before they had been in a dead heat. Immediately attention was focused to the Paris negotiations where Nixon campaign foreign policy advisor Henry Kissinger was stationed.

In her autobiography, Anna Chennault directly addressed the allegation of an October Surprise when North Vietnam negotiators after speaking with ranking Nixon campaign officials (headed by Kissinger) walked away from the American delegation under President Johnson after being offered a better deal if negotiations began after the election. In a phone conversation between President Johnson and Minority Leader Senator Everett Dirksen, Johnson singled out the Nixon campaign as the primary reason why negotiations had stalled and called him and his party "traitors". The Johnson administration never disclosed this change in fortunes or why the walkout occurred since it might hang a cloud of illegitimacy between both candidates should either one win over the other.


Of course, the war dragged on for several more years, and Tricky Dicky put forward the seductive slogan "Peace with Honor."

And, what did Henry Kissinger finally announce, 12 days before Tricky Dicky's re-election? "Peace is at hand!"


Lyndon was right - Tricky Dick and his party were a bunch of traitors.
Unfortunately, not talking about what had gone on behind the scenes seems to have been a common trait with Johnson, whether it was how Nixon and the Republicans had screwed him over Vietnam, or how he had come to believe that the Kennedy Assassination was a result of what he privately referred to as "that Goddamn murder incorporated we were running in the Caribbean." (Sorry, my Aspie obsession again. :oops:)

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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18 Jun 2012, 8:18 pm

Raptor wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Image


Amazing what you can do with Photoshop....


Yes, but that meeting really did take place.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQKoyJ8KRh4[/youtube]

After receiving them he spoke to the press. He pointed to them and said: “These gentlemen are the moral equivalent of America’s founding fathers.” These were the Afghan Mujahiddin.



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18 Jun 2012, 8:32 pm

Proving that Regan was a jackass.

American politicians were so blinded by anti-communism they could not see something three feet from their noses.

ruveyn



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18 Jun 2012, 10:13 pm

One of the oddball things that old Romping Rabies did was order the solar panels removed that Jimmy Carter had proudly placed on the White House.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/thepresid ... Panels.htm

President Obama was planning to reinstall solar panels, thus bringing us full circle on that issue.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... r-panels/1