Voter ID laws.

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NAKnight
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16 Dec 2012, 12:10 am

Jacoby wrote:

don't understand why people read this stuff if it upsets them so much

It's just that simple. Some people can't be challenged.

Best Regards,

Jake

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ruveyn
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16 Dec 2012, 5:48 am

marshall wrote:

The US has a history of literacy tests in the south to specifically to keep blacks from voting. It was ruled unconstitutional because there is no way to make sure such tests are non-partisan and they are not fair when equal access to education isn't even guaranteed by the state.

It is the Civil Rights Act of 1965 that illegalizes such shennanigans. There have not been discriminatory literacy tests for what now???? 47 years.

ruveyn

visagrunt
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16 Dec 2012, 12:15 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Canada has voter ID laws...

Acting as if this is some evil racist plot to suppress the vote is just pure idiocy

I think Marshall is probably going to end up on time out soon if he can't stop raging at people

don't understand why people read this stuff if it upsets them so much

I also oppose those, for the record.

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Jacoby
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16 Dec 2012, 1:24 pm

visagrunt wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

I also oppose those, for the record.

why, you need an ID for practically everything

electing the leader of your country seems like a much more important responsibility than buying beer

LKL
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16 Dec 2012, 7:02 pm

Jacoby wrote:

visagrunt wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

I also oppose those, for the record.

why, you need an ID for practically everything

electing the leader of your country seems like a much more important responsibility than buying beer

buying beer isn't a *right* intrinsic to the functioning of this country. Essentially, what you are saying boils down to, 'voting is a priviledge, and should be reserved only for those who are able to jump through the hoops' that you, in your superciliousness, decide to set up.
Hoops which, by convenient coincidence, tend to disenfranchise those who tend to disagree with you.

Jacoby
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16 Dec 2012, 7:24 pm

LKL wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

visagrunt wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

I also oppose those, for the record.

why, you need an ID for practically everything

electing the leader of your country seems like a much more important responsibility than buying beer

No more hoops than actually showing up to the polling station or registering to vote. For what reason does it disenfranchise and why would it only disenfranchise people I disagree with? I can't think of any reason for someone to be incapable of getting a ID. If you don't have any identification, it doesn't mean you're incapable of getting it probably just means you have no reason for it. If you want to vote you'd have a reason.

ruveyn
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16 Dec 2012, 8:02 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Anyone of the legal voting age or greater, who lives in the district and who is not a convicted felon should be able to register to vote. Once registered, that person upon identifying himself to the polling officer on election day should be allowed to cast a ballot and have his name ticked off the list as having voted. (only one vote to a customer per election)l

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LKL
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16 Dec 2012, 10:22 pm

Jacoby wrote:

LKL wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

visagrunt wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

I also oppose those, for the record.

why, you need an ID for practically everything

electing the leader of your country seems like a much more important responsibility than buying beer

you clearly haven't been paying attention for the last 8 pages or so. It's a little more than a minor inconvenience for some people to gather the id needed to vote. If it were merely a matter of preventing impersonation, why shouldn't any photo ID work, like a student ID or a workplace photo ID? Many of these have very tight standards, and are as secure as a driver's license. The only reason to exclude student IDs is to exclude students from voting.
A lot of old people live in care homes, and even though their minds are clear, they no longer have driver's licenses, much less the ability to drive, due to physical issues. They not only do not have photo IDs, they don't have the ability to go out and get themselves photo IDs. All of the required paperwork probably remained behind in their homes when they went to the care home.

The only voter fraud that has any chance of actually changing the results of elections is the type of voter fraud that the Repbulicans have been committing: destroying the registrations of Democrats en masse, thus forcing people to cast (usually uncounted) provisional ballots, or fraud involving mail-in ballots.

xenon13
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16 Dec 2012, 10:37 pm

What does an ID do to combat voter impersonation? It links the name you are using with a picture that's supposed to match your face. Such can be achieved with almost any kind of ID imaginable that has a picture with it, though you can't invent your own organisation so you can create club membership cards with photo IDs where you can snap your picture for cards in the name of John Doe, John Smith and so forth. A student card should therefore be sufficient.

LKL
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17 Dec 2012, 4:27 am

^and yet student IDs were explicitley disallowed in much of the voter ID legislation put forth by Republican statehouses before the latest election. Hmmm, now, why could that be...?!

hanyo
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17 Dec 2012, 5:08 am

Jacoby wrote:

I can't think of any reason for someone to be incapable of getting a ID. If you don't have any identification, it doesn't mean you're incapable of getting it probably just means you have no reason for it. If you want to vote you'd have a reason.

Here is an example. http://www.dmv.ny.gov/forms/id44.pdf

After nearly a decade of not having an id we decided I needed one (my mother wanted my name on her bank account in case something happened to her like death, or old age or a major illness or injury requiring me to do her banking for her) so we went to the dmv to get me a new id. They require 6 points worth of proof now. I only managed to come up with 4 points and was completely baffled as to how I'd get 2 more especially considering that many proofs on the list require having an id to get. In the end it was solved when I got cancer and someone helped me get Medicaid because the Medicaid card was worth 2 points. I'm just lucky that you can get Medicaid without an id, at least without an unexpired one. They accepted my really old almost decade expired id. It's a good thing I got my ged many years ago or I still would have been 1 point short.

ruveyn
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17 Dec 2012, 6:36 am

LKL wrote:

^and yet student IDs were explicitley disallowed in much of the voter ID legislation put forth by Republican statehouses before the latest election. Hmmm, now, why could that be...?!

It could be for several reasons.

1. A student I.D. does not legally establish residence for the purpose of voting. A student from out of state (for example) is not a legal voting resident of the state in which the school is.

2. A student I.D. could be faked and obtained by someone who is not a resident of the district or in other ways not qualified to vote in the district.

3. Or it could be a way of making it difficult for college students to vote. That is dirty poor.

ruveyn

LKL
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17 Dec 2012, 4:06 pm

ruveyn wrote:

LKL wrote:

^and yet student IDs were explicitley disallowed in much of the voter ID legislation put forth by Republican statehouses before the latest election. Hmmm, now, why could that be...?!

One does not simply walk into a polling station with a student ID and vote; one must also be registered to vote at that station (ie, a resident). The ID is to verify identity; the registration is to verify qualification.

Student IDs can be no more easily faked than many other allowed IDs.

Given that multiple republicans in multiple states have explicitly said that the entire purpose was to give Romney the election, I suspect that door number 3 is the answer.

Jacoby
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17 Dec 2012, 5:06 pm

LKL wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

LKL wrote:

^and yet student IDs were explicitley disallowed in much of the voter ID legislation put forth by Republican statehouses before the latest election. Hmmm, now, why could that be...?!

Do you really think they meant it that way or did they honestly believe there voter fraud?

LKL
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18 Dec 2012, 12:09 am

More than one Republican statesman said, on camera, to cheers and claps, that the purpose of the new voting restrictions was to limit the Democratic vote. Maybe I'm missing a subtext because of autism, but it sure *looked* like they were overtly admitting that 'voter fraud' was just the talking point for the rubes.

ruveyn
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18 Dec 2012, 9:41 am

LKL wrote:

What if it were. If voter id laws (in addition to the existing ones) go into effect there will be so many lawsuits that they never will achieve the indicated effect. In addition to which, it will bring opprobrium upon the Republicans who propose it. If you are anti-Republican you should wish such misbegotten laws were passed and then knocked down.

ruveyn

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