look at what these famous non muslims say about muhammad

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Assuming all of that was actually true, of course. Are we to believe, given the existence of the Flynn Effect (nutrition in particular) and our knowledge about living standards throughout human history, that individuals in 7th century Arabia possessed vastly superior cognitive abilities compared to modern generations?

Tell me, salad: does salted water mix with clean water?

yes. it was true. stop denying it. and yes, their intelligence vastly surpasses ours due to their powerful, vivid and sharp long term-short term memories. I've taken an iq test, and if i had the memory of these muslims like aisha and bukhari, my score would have skyrocketed. a lot of questions on the iq test require memory, although some like the cognitive efficiency don't. aisha can hear something one time an memorize it even after many years. bukhari memorized 10,000 hadiths at the age of 10!! !! ! shafi'i was said to be able to memorize a book after opening it and reading it once. abu hanifa when he was only five debated an atheist who challenged the muslims with questions whom not one of them was able to answer, except a 5 year old abu hanifa. i think people underestimate the geniuses like them only because their genius was in the field of religion. abdullah ibn abbas was 8 yet he taught most of the muslims about islam, he even converted his house into a university where he was a teacher. these muslims had intellect that most people lacked, in both memory and even thinking. in taimiya memorized 1,000,000 hadiths by memory and can rename them easily. bukhari was one time invited to a gathering where they took hundred hadiths, scrambled the chain of narrations around, yet he was able to easily and accurately rearrange them back together without a single error. if that's not gifted, then what is??? you think memory like that is common?? lol. i have a hard time memorizing even more than 10 small hadiths at times, while they memorized hadiths in the millions and hundred thousands. they even memorized the exact chain of narration as well.

Last edited by salad on 02 Feb 2013, 3:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

why do you ask.

You know that you're arguing with a soul who has had his brains marinated in doctrinaire religion, don't you?

I hate religion. All religion. I don't care what it is. I hate the parasitical, evil bastards that make their living off it, pretending, as they do, to be so pious about everything but inside, in their eyes, you can see a darkened soul. I don't care whether it's a beardy, or a man wearing a dog collar, or anything like that. Especially in the two major Abrahamic religions at least, you can see wickedness and evil.

so I'm considered dumb because i think that the world didn't accidentally create itself but was rather created? what's your input on how the universe formed? i know that the universe forming by "accident" is equivalent to a chimpanzee pressing random buttons on a keyboard and typing a dictionary. i once questioned how a lot of the teachings in my religion, and for every question i received a sensible answer that answered even more of my questions. sadly, it's just that I'm still very young (I recently turned 15) so a lot of the questions you may have i don't know the answer to. i probably am not the best person to debate with, i admit. i lack the experience, knowledge and answers to a lot of your questions, and am currently looking up the answers to your questions. there are answers to a lot of your questions and arguments to refute yours, only they are not available in my arsenal and i have to acquire them by looking them up on the spot. i suggest you watch Zakir Zaik's videos considering how he delves into these topics and answers all of your questions and even more that i once questioned. he's a scholar who knows what he's saying, i will admit that zakir naik can easily answer all of your questions, if only you just watched his videos you'll understand what i mean

As you know the "infalible" qu'ran says that those don't mix. Do you think that the qu'ran is true even though you can confirm at your house that they indeed mix?

Ever thought you might come across a question Islam can't answer?

Or what if the some of the answers you find are wrong? Will you just accept them, anyway - because of the source?

can you show me the verse. i want to ask some muslims about that verse myself so i can get the explanation and interpretation of what that verse means and why it even said that. i haven't heard this verse which is why i want to do research into this verse.

after watching zakir naik and other scholars i learned islam has an answer only I'm not a scholar and don't have the answer to a lot of these questions. i suggest you watch him rather than waste your time with me, because I'm an idiot compared to zakir naik who lacks the knowledge and experience to provide suitable answers to your questions. go on youtube and watch what zakir naik has to say about these issues.

and what do you mean by wrong. just because it's right you assume it's wrong. why do you accept some hadiths but not the others??? you go on about Hadiths talking about his marriage to Aisha and ignore every other hadith, such as how he treated her, how she loved him, why he even married her etc. you don't pick and choose which hadiths to accept and which to reject

I still think you're an eejit (and I'll respond to you about the AENM thing tomorrow), but you're spot on here.

salad: No, don't ask Muslims about the verse. Any Muslim you ask to interpret that verse is potentially committing blasphemy (as the 'scholars' are) and should therefore have their heads cut off. You wouldn't wish that on personal friends would you? No. Read the Islamic verse yourself and make your own mind up.

Do you want your fellow Muslims to die because you were that selfish enough to ask them to interpret the will of Allah? You interpret (or probably misinterpret - don't worry, it happens to the best of us) your best books all the time. If you make a mistake one Saturday morning when you're tired and haven't had your sleep, do you deserve to go to Chop-Chop Square for it?

In other words: your book is lying to you, mate. It's a cruel, cruel fraud that is being perpetuated on you. You're not a bad person - most of us aren't. This is all we have. Life usually isn't very exciting for most people, but unless you can give me proof of another life (and no-one can) then you're taking it all on pure belief, and I think that's very sad.

Another way of looking at it is this: I want you to lend a random person $1,000. I want you to believe that this random person will bring it back the next day, with interest. Do you seriously think a random (possibly dishonest) person would?

That's really my point - what is written in religious texts of long ago doesn't tally with the real world.

Last edited by Tequila on 02 Feb 2013, 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

without tafsir on the verses they become ambiguous and lack clarity and context, which is what i need to better understand the verse. intact, i don't even know which verse you are talking about. can you show me the verse so i can take a look at it

http://quran.com/25/53

You can check the boxes on the left to see different translations simultaneously.

So, do they mix, or not?

The two Quranic verses:

He has set free the two seas meeting together. There is a barrier between them. They do not transgress. (Quran, 55:19-20)

He is the one who has set free the two kinds of water, one sweet and palatable, and the other salty and bitter. And He has made between them a barrier and a forbidding partition. (Quran, 25:53)

By wrong, I mean incorrect. Like in the Bible where it says pi = 3. There may be similarly blatantly wrong assertions like that in the Quran. Ones that you can even prove wrong with science.

What's the correct value for Pi then?