Israel

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No all of the violence can be traced to the foundation of Pan Arabism which formed as an islamic revolution in response to both Israel and the the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. The theological basis was that the invasion of an islamic nation by a non-muslim invader (Zionist Israel and communist Russia) was an attack on all of islam. In the same year the Russians invaded Afghanistan the Ayotollah Khomenei overthrew the western orientated Iranian royal family, South East Asian and African countries moved toward religious governments and women began to wear the hijab almost as if there was a decree that islam was under attack...

Pan Arabism gave rise to the Taliban and Al Qaeda which produced the first global islamic terror organisations. Terrorism against the west has been a product of this return to fundementalism, a little known fact is the muslim world moved toward religious fundamentalism in response to a perceived threat (social and military) of the great "kafeer" nations Americans, Russians and Israelis...

Not at all. Anti-Israel is not anti-Jew.


...Excuse me?

This isn't the first time on WrongPlanet I've been accused of being pro-Saddam, so let me just tell you right now that that's not a line you want to cross.

Good Point

Barchan


You sure have anti- Semitic views and stop playing with semantics. Do you deny that 6 million Jews were killed from 1938-1945 by the hands of the Nazis in a industrialized mass murder concentration camps ?

No. I don't. And I have a pretty low tolerance for personal attacks, so knock it off.

This is incorrect. While there was palestinian terrorism in the 50s and 60s, it wasn't until the mid to late 70s that the virulent sunni terrorism began to spread and the middle east began to destabilize. By the 1980s the problem became extremely bad and has continued to worsen ever since. And the source of this terrorist scourge is Saudi Arabia. The Saudi's spread terrorism abroad to preserve stability back home.

And furthermore, the root cause of Islamic terrorism turns out to be something quite carnal: The fact that Islam permits polygyny and a small percentage of men get all the women. That's why suicide bombers do what they do because they're promised 40 virgins in the afterlife.



@frenchmanflats: You sound like yet another idiotic neoconservative sycophant. I don't care if Israel and Saudi Arabia are working together. This is precarious at best but potentially a dangerous mistake. Saudi Arabia is the worlds #1 sponsor of terrorism.

Oh please do explain how the Palestinian situation is nothing like that of the Native Americans? Well good on the Native Americans if they never killed innocent children. And the attacks by lone maniac Palestinians will not be justified by me. I just wonder why you fine with Israel killing innocent children?

"He forgot to mention hate for the Jewish people also was a factor? Whole truths are much better than half truths, don't you agree? Please quote more of Benny Morris (not so curated) showing the factors of his arguments that illustrate further frictions? Funny you should choose Benny."

No he didn't forget to put in the Zionist propaganda you just spouted. If anyone tried to justify Native American attacks against colonist Europeans as "hate for the white/European people" they'd get laughed at. The Jews were hated for what they were doing, not because they were/are Jews. I chose Benny, because he is pro Israel and boasts about Israel's killings, so this shows he's not even close to being biased against Israel.

"So I wonder John, if you don't condone the killings by Palestinians, then why do you oppose Israeli's attempts to defend themselves?"

Because Israel is not "defending themselves", the Palestinians are the ones on the defense. If you had any knowledge of the conflict, you'd understand this. Israel choose to go in and level Gaza every couple of years, the choose to continue the brutal occupation, steal more land and resources, torture, imprison without trial... They are the ones with the power, with massive support from the USA. "The Israelis defend themselves against rabid terrorists using the most humane methods" What's "humane" about targeting ambulances and pouring chemical weapons on schools and hospitals?

Again, I will not justify the killing of innocent people. Whatever excuse is used, it is inexcusable to target innocent civilians. Around 5% Israelis didn't support the 2014 massacre in Gaza, and a Palestinian terrorist could be attacking one of those 5% for a start. Even innocent people in the 95% category should not be targeted, they just need to stop being fooled by their parasitic leaders.

"They blow people up in cafes and buses" With your logic then, no Jews should be allowed into Israel, as Jews do the same.

Yes, duh!

They did not "attack", they were responding to an act of war.

If the US really wanted to resolve the conflict, they could do it right now..

Palestinians did not have a "good deal" in 1947. If some colonists come to your land and own about 10% of the land and are less than half of the population but want more than half of the land, you are not going to accept this deal unless you are deranged.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/ ... aeli-army/

So morally superior. A light unto the nations!

It's not really worth trying to explain to him when he sees Palestinian/Arabs/Muslims as subhuman.

Can you explain what motivates non-Islamic terrorists (i.e., Israelis)?

Because so far, the question of Israeli terrorism is something no one in this thread seems to want to address. Israel has committed countless acts of terrorism since the 1950's. And when I say terrorism, I don't mean internationally sanctioned acts of warfare, I mean actual terrorism like the infamous Lavon Affair. They're the most powerful and dangerous terrorist organization to ever exist.

They never had any land they were always ruled by someone, whether it was the Ottomans, Byzantium, Romans, British. The Fatimids and Ayyubids were not Palestinians either. This was the first time they had an opportunity to have any land of their own and the squandered it.

The term Palestinian comes from the the British. In early 1940s they didn't fight under that banner. The Bedouin don't say they are Palsitinian, and they are the ones that have lived in the desert for centuries.

The Palestinians had an area bigger than Lebanon, with 3/4 of people in it, and less diverse. They were also free to stay in Israel, until the Arab nations attacked.

Petty nationalism like this just prolongs conflict. There is a reason why Nasserism and Baathim failed, there is no genuine unity. If you were interested in solving the conflict you would accept the reality. Israel is not going away, and neither is Palestine.

Lets put it this way, Palestinians would love to turn back to clock to have a deal even roughly approaching what was on offer back then. Why not, when it was much more land and security? You would be nuts not to take an opportunity like that if you had in now. The situation now is much worse, in terms of what is realistic. So it is obvious they have squandered many opportunities, whatever you think of the Isrealis.

One of the myths is it has to do with overall territory, and population. They had more than enough land. The surrounding Arab nation don't care about the Palestinians either. They are not treated better in those countries, they are second class citizens. Arab Isrealis are treated better.

It is about control of the holy land pure and simple, and always has been. I include the Israelis in this too. It is sad that most of bloodshed hasn't been becuase of necessity, but based on both believing they are better and more righteous.

I used to be very one sided like you, until I educated myself, and took a solid dose of pragmatism. Those that teach their children to carry on this behaviour aren't freedom fighters, they are sick. It is inter-generational neurosis.

I live in the real world, a country that is 70 years old isn't goign way whatever you think of it. I hope there is a peaceful solution. Reinforcing the victim mentality and righteousness isn't actually helping shorten the conflict.

Gaza is a s**t hole for a reason, much worse than the West Bank. Israel bares some of the blame for supporting Hamas in the early days. However it is not all down to one side, to say that would ignore the contrasting situation in the West Bank.

I'm against settlements, but the withdrawal of settlement in Gaza spurred almost immediate attack so it is hard to say it was a better outcome. As soon as Hams were voted in they rounded up all the Fatah candidates took them to high building and pushed them off.

10 years of Hamas in Gaza have made it worse for the people living there than it has ever been since the history of the conflict. Seriously they have spent want resources they have on activities which have done nothing but made they people worse off an more miserable. How is that a solution?

Also, why focus just on this conflict? What about all the other conflicts in the middle east that have been going on for 13 centuries since the battle of Karbala. Are you going to blame all that on the west? Sectarian tensions have to exist to be stirred up, this is really an extension of that. Even if you only count modern conflict in the region, the casualties are smaller then others simple due to the population in the area concerned. How much attention have to played to other sectarian conflict in the wider middle east, compared to this? I presume to care about those victims too?