RetroGamer87 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
To say that maleness is toxic or oppressive is not particularly helpful.
Many times, I've heard feminists say that feminism helps men too, by making it socially acceptable for the less masculine men. I'm all for this. As famous feminist Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie said, "men are put into tiny boxes". This is unfortunate.
However, all this talk of "toxic masculinity" makes me think some feminists want to not only make it socially acceptable for men to be less masculine, but make it socially acceptable for men to be nothing but. I don't like seeing men put into a tiny box defined by masculinity but I wouldn't like to see men taking out of one tiny box and put into another tiny box.
I don't think "toxic masculinity" provides constraints on the degree of masculinity that is acceptable, more a small set of behaviours that we'd probably all agree are undesirable.
Take Ron Swanson of
Parks and Recreation. Ron is a man's man. He has contempt for the government, vegetarians, people who rely on others, friendship, emotions, sensitivity, taxes, lying, the Federal Reserve, and everywhere except America and Scotland (because he likes scotch). He loves meat, solitude, freedom, construction, handiwork, hard liquor, honest labour, and facial hair. He softens on some of these stances as the series progresses, but he's the height of masculinity, a clear contrast to New Age vegan Chris or feminist nerd Ben or family man Jerry or failed entrepreneur/playboy Tom or goofball Andy. But Ron still respects women and indeed everyone's individuality. He gives great advice to his co-workers. He warns them not to be manipulative in their personal relationships, although it's good to do it if it stops the government getting in your way. He abhors violence. And although he usually avoids forming close friendships, he doesn't like upsetting people. Ron is usually presented as sympathetic, despite being ideologically opposed to almost everything that happens in the show; it frequently upsets the POV character, ultra feminist Lesley Knope, when she alienates him, and she will go to extreme lengths to make him happy.
Here is a fairly prominent feminist definition of toxic masculinity. Would ending this actually limit men in any way, beyond requiring them to just be good people? For example, abolishing the idea that men can never show emotions (except maybe anger or jealousy) wouldn't stop men from showing emotions if they want to be a stoic Ron Swanson.
Is there a toxic femininity list? There are some traits in mind.
Not yet. You'll have to make one Boo.
Well, from pure feminist perspective, I can think of a list of common behaviors/expectations (in the general population) that hinders feminist agenda on gender equality:
Examples of toxic femininity:
- Expecting men to pay for dates (even if he's the invitee)
- Expecting men to lead in everything.
- Expecting men to cover housing/wedding...etc the whole costs of marriage.
- Her only ambition is to be a housewive.
- Only accepting to date men wealthier than her.
- Expecting her daughters to help in the house chores while saying nothing to her sons.
- Mocking or belittling men with feminine traits/behaviors.
- Mocking or belittling women with masculine traits/behaviors.
- Telling other women how they should act more ladylike.
- Slut shaming other women.
- (When woman is working) Total refusal of the idea to date a man who is unemployed.
- (When woman is working) Total refusal of the idea to marry a man who takes the role as househusband.
- The total refusal of the idea to date a man with less education or less income than her.
- The total refusal of the idea to date a man who is shorter or physically weaker than her.
- Gold digging, of any type. No exception.
- More on gold digging: Expecting the man to buy expensive gifts while she doesn't buy any expensive gifts in return.
- Expecting man to always be the driver in the car.
- Explicit 'damsel in distress' behavior. Typical example: Waiting for a stranger man to volunteer changing her car's tire. Another typical example: Expecting a man to help her in the gym training.
- Asking the wealthy husband to hire maids for her and then exploiting and abusing those maids (most maids are women from poor countries after all) - this is more relevant in Middle east and North africa.
- And oh, things like this:
https://stateofmind13.com/2016/05/17/na ... not-women/There are much more, I am sure.
Such behaviors/expectations empower traditional gender roles hence hindering women to move forward.
. When have the behaviors are "expecting", you know there is a problem with your list. If you .
16 Nov 2016, 4:30 pm
