Incel terrorism

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Sahn
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18 Jun 2018, 1:20 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

TL;DR did a pretty good job on this.

The point as I'd abstract (matching my own observations, less what he said directly) - love, compassion, empathy, etc. is for the victors in the game of social Darwinism. The losers are good for target practice and, not being of the strong, should indeed be stomped out the moment they complain of the effects of their genetic inferiority.

I think the real trouble here is that there's no cultural place of dignity, like becoming monks or anything like that, which we have for the unmarried or unmarriagable in which they can be held in high esteem or have a place from which to provide value or be held as valuable by the community unless luck really has it that they have highly profitable talents to keep themselves alive with. All of the things that the victors would assume just happens to anyone whose worth anything doesn't happen for a much larger part of the population (both men and women to significant degrees) than they'd ever dream of and again - the winners have contempt for the losers, can't relate to them, and that other people will be living in a void with little or no hope until the day they die isn't just something that doesn't trigger any empathy - it seems to almost make them hate those people more for being.

In so many ways this reminds me of how the upper and upper-middle classes used to and sometimes still do look on the poor, and it might have been Orwell who said something about the gentry on the train watching the poor in their shacks saying 'Wow, I could never imagine suffering through that, thank God their only mere beasts and can't feel it the way we would'. It's the same sort of apathy/antipathy game playing itself out, just that this time it's not playing itself out in a way that flows well with current political narratives, and it's yet another reason why incels need to be kicked as hard as humanly possible - they're a point of moral embarrassment to those kicking them.

What a horrid video, it's like dressing up vomit as food, just nasty. Skip to 18.15, you can really hear the bile spewing over. IMO You were doing a better job on your own.

techstepgenr8tion
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18 Jun 2018, 6:33 am

domineekee wrote:

What a horrid video, it's like dressing up vomit as food, just nasty. Skip to 18.15, you can really hear the bile spewing over. IMO You were doing a better job on your own.

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techstepgenr8tion
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18 Jun 2018, 6:35 am

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:

People not far from where I live were actually murdered by someone like this (the Toronto van attack.) My empathy is tapped out for these guys. Maybe you should try having some for people targeted by these hateful groups and their violence instead of for the ones promoting and committing the violence? Can you understand that it's a lot of ask for empathy of the people that are targeted by such hatred and violence for the ones targeting them? Is my perspective entirely invisible to you, all you see is "witch hunt"?

All of that could be beyond you, though.

It apparently is. You're smarter than me, and a better human being morally so - I'll leave you alone.

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karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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18 Jun 2018, 6:49 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:

It apparently is. You're smarter than me, and a better human being morally so - I'll leave you alone.

This is a disingenuous cop-out. You will ask for empathy for incels for the sake of this conversation, but you're not willing to try to empathize with my perspective for it. You want other people to challenge their thoughts in a way you're not willing to do with your own biases.

Peacesells
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18 Jun 2018, 7:03 am

I have seen these forums and I have to say that many of them are entitled idiots and hate equality. Some of them aren't even that celibate but they want more and like to whine.
After reading techstepgenr8tion's post I believe the wisest thing for society would be to consider both problems separately (the social isolation of some people and these extremist groups and ideologies) and do something about it with different approaches. It's only fair, not all isolated people are hateful extremist and as I said above I have the impression that not all of these extremists are actually isolated people.
It is a logical fallacy to refuse to consider a problem just because some people affected by that problem behave in an extreme and terroristic way.

Last edited by Peacesells on 18 Jun 2018, 7:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

techstepgenr8tion
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18 Jun 2018, 7:06 am

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:

I already answered this - knowing why they are the way they are and how to think about correcting the problem. Saying 'awe...they're really okay people down beneath it, even if one of them killed a whole bunch of people near me in a van' - two completely, night and day, different things.

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Hollywood_Guy
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18 Jun 2018, 8:23 am

Unfortunately, they tried talking about the frustration. That didn't work and they were only labeled as misogynist. And the cycle continues...

kraftiekortie
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18 Jun 2018, 8:28 am

Anybody who behaves and writes like those "incels" on that website-----just needs to be ignored and disregarded.

ASPartOfMe
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18 Jun 2018, 9:25 am

People need to vent and when that happens people sometimes talk nonsense. While an occasional offensive remark should not be enough to brand somebody a women hater for life as happens too often is these incels make hating all women and sexually active men because they did not get the sex they think they are entitled to, their “philosophy”. Relating to another thread while not getting the sex one needs really sucks others do have it a lot worse then them. A lot of people just do not have the time to wallow in thier entitlement.

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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 18 Jun 2018, 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sahn
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18 Jun 2018, 9:38 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

Anybody who behaves and writes like those "incels" on that website-----just needs to be ignored and disregarded.

But thread is concerned with real terrorism, I don't think it's just going to evaporate. Mainstream media has moved on and the debate is happening right here on the internet, on Youtube, and on forums. The people informing the debate get paid for the videos that they make and those same people have an interest in generating more discontent. It's a real sh*tstorm.

jrjones9933
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18 Jun 2018, 2:30 pm

Hollywood_Guy wrote:

Unfortunately, they tried talking about the frustration. That didn't work and they were only labeled as misogynist. And the cycle continues...

Calling people names doesn't radicalize them.

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18 Jun 2018, 2:53 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:

Hollywood_Guy wrote:

Unfortunately, they tried talking about the frustration. That didn't work and they were only labeled as misogynist. And the cycle continues...

Calling people names doesn't radicalize them.

When that guy shot those black people in that church, and it was later discovered that he was a seething racist, I don't recall anyone saying that he was disenfranchised, and misunderstood, and we should attempt to understand where he was coming from.

But when a shooting is misogyny-related, it seems people crawl out from their rocks to tell us how these guys are actually victims, and imply that killing women (or even men) is "understandable" if done out of sexual frustration. It really is a lot of nonsense. Black people don't need to lend a sympathetic ear to the KKK, and women don't need to lend one to "incels."

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karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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18 Jun 2018, 5:16 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:

jrjones9933 wrote:

Hollywood_Guy wrote:

Unfortunately, they tried talking about the frustration. That didn't work and they were only labeled as misogynist. And the cycle continues...

Calling people names doesn't radicalize them.

Thank you!

Yes, it is important to understand how marginalized men can get radicalized when terrorist attacks happen, it is natural to ask how can we prevent these kinds of things from happening. Surely though we can find a way to do that without justifying the violence they commit by only talking about how hard society has been on them and no wonder they end up hating everyone. Lots of people who have it rough don't become terrorist spree killers, so talking about how society gives these guys a really hard time and it's not fair only serves to make it seem like you are sympathizing with violent psychopaths rather than trying to solve the problem of how to prevent terrorist radicalization.

I think the problem is not social isolation but a certain type of thinking full of cognitive biases that is enforced by online echo chambers full of the same kind of toxic thinking that appeals to people who want a target for their negative feelings rather than a solution to their social and interpersonal problems. It's easier to externalize feelings of anger and failure onto other people as hatred and abuse than to become self aware and cope with one's own feelings and life choices. Vulnerable men find communities online (like incel forums) that reinforce and encourage this thinking and help them direct their frustrations at women. It's like a cult, they brainwash already psychologically vulnerable people, and they excommunicate anyone who challenges the cult-think.

jrjones9933
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18 Jun 2018, 7:22 pm

One can find any number of think pieces analyzing the newly fascist. Sometimes they tell the left to have more sympathy for those beleaguered and misguided folks. Stop calling them names!

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Peacesells
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18 Jun 2018, 8:32 pm

In my opinion sympathy and compassion don't have to imply mercy in any way.
I have not a lot of experience with incels, but when I blast men-hating feminazis and SJWs I sometimes can see what made them what they are. Then I empathize, sympathize, feel their pain without showing it, because there's no use. These things jaded them into becoming irrational beasts that lunge for my throat and I can't do anything about it. I think this is a fitting parallel:

Please note that I am sharing my own experience and I am not trying to tell you that you have to feel this way too.

karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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18 Jun 2018, 8:56 pm

Peacesells wrote:

Out of curiosity, when was the last SJW feminazi terrorist attack? How many people have been murdered by these feminazis you "blast"?

I'll wait.

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