Do you think healthcare is a right?

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26 Jul 2018, 3:29 pm

but what would prevent people who have a lot of power make agreements to hold even more power and then rob other people?

i feel that the state is a natural way people will organize, what happens is that in a modern state, we try to create mechanism to soft the impacts all this power can have. like having independent powers and so on.

Kraichgauer
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26 Jul 2018, 5:29 pm

Spiderpig wrote:

That only supports my point. No state, no corruption.

We're talking about providing medical coverage for those in need. How the Hell is that corruption?

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LoveNotHate
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26 Jul 2018, 5:31 pm

It seems to me if you demand tax money, then you're morally OK will robbing people.

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Kraichgauer
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26 Jul 2018, 5:36 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:

It seems to me if you demand tax money, then you're morally OK will robbing people.

Again... taxation is not robbery! It's the price we pay for living in a civilized society.

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XFilesGeek
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26 Jul 2018, 5:39 pm

Spiderpig wrote:

@ Kraichgauer & XFilesGeek – Okay, so there's no reasoning with either of you, because you can't be bothered to address my points and just repeat yours, implying your subjectivity is objectivity; in other words, an argument from your own authority, laced with a growing amount of condescension and gratuitous, irrelevant assumptions about me or the origin of the ideas I'm defending. I guess I should've expected it at this point. I'll just comment on this:

XFilesGeek wrote:

Most people who want to impose "survival of the fittest" on human society have no idea what "survival of the fittest" actually means in the biological sense.

Even wolves take care of the weak and sick members of their pack.

Even humans naturally discard babies they don't expect to grow into healthy adults able to pull their weight. Being all touchy-feely about it is a luxury you can't afford in a primitive society. There's also bullying to remind us of the uglier parts of human nature. Trying to repress them from above won't make them go away; it'll only make people hate you, and they'll act accordingly.

I get it: you don't like yourself, and, instead of saying, "I have no right existing," you make yourself feel better by insisting that none of us "weaklings" has any business bothering our "betters."

As it turns out, I have no interest in following you in your campaign of self-loathing. You obviously have no arguments besides stomping your feet and repeating yourself. I've asked the other mods to over-see this thread in response to your trolling.

Have a lovely week.

EDIT: I've already asked the other mods to review this thread. They'll decide what I've written is a "personal attack," which, considering you called anyone who accepts public healthcare a "diseased criminal" is rich indeed.

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XFilesGeek
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26 Jul 2018, 5:40 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:

It seems to me if you demand tax money, then you're morally OK will robbing people.

Like you did in the military?

In case you didn't know, your paycheck and benefits came from tax money.

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26 Jul 2018, 6:18 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:

Personal attack reported. As said, I'm done trying to discuss anything with you.

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B19
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26 Jul 2018, 6:38 pm

When I saw the title of this thread, I shuddered with a premonition of how it would go on an American-dominated website. The bitterness that surrounds this issue reappears with every new thread on it.

I think that at this stage it is probably about time to lock it, unless it can become more civil.

Moderator comment ^
..

Personal comment: v

Should any of the oppositionists to healthcare paid for by taxes visit New Zealand as a tourist, even without medical insurance, and have an accident while you are here (even if it's your own stupid fault) we will happily provide you with free very high quality public health care in our hospitals, until you are well enough to be repatriated or discharged.

NZ is a liberal democracy that still retains some of those core values and has no wish to change, even though the USA would never extend the same generosity to New Zealanders visiting the USA.

To those who are firmly against free health care of any kind, if you are injured here while visiting, please ask for a bill and pay it in full before you leave New Zealand, which will be many thousands of dollars. However at least you will be able to leave with your principles uncompromised.

kraftiekortie
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26 Jul 2018, 6:50 pm

I would like to come to New Zealand....and not get hurt!

Though I will be most appreciative of the generosity should I be require medical care.

Dylanperr
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26 Jul 2018, 7:01 pm

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

It should be. Unfortunately, it's treated as a privilege in the States. :roll:

Agreed. Hi.

XFilesGeek
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26 Jul 2018, 7:17 pm

B19 wrote:

LoveNotHate
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26 Jul 2018, 9:04 pm

B19 wrote:

NZ is a liberal democracy that still retains some of those core values and has no wish to change, even though the USA would never extend the same generosity to New Zealanders visiting the USA.

American hospitals provide free emergency services.

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Kraichgauer
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26 Jul 2018, 10:54 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:

B19 wrote:

NZ is a liberal democracy that still retains some of those core values and has no wish to change, even though the USA would never extend the same generosity to New Zealanders visiting the USA.

American hospitals provide free emergency services.

But that doesn't include long term care, or later operations and the like.
Plus not very long ago, Republican lawmakers had wanted to limit the number of emergency visits people on government coverage could make.

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B19
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26 Jul 2018, 10:58 pm

LNH, Forbes guidelines confirm that foreign tourists suffering injury in the USA are not cared for reputable hospitals free of charge in the USA, as you would be if injured in New Zealand while here on a tourist visa, whether you had travel insurance or not.

If you required surgery to get a pin put into a broken leg here, the NZ government would provide surgery free of charge in a world class public hospital.

Spiderpig
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27 Jul 2018, 7:30 am

I think I posted this before, but I'm not sure whether it was deleted by moderators or I simply failed to post it. The former possibility would mean XFilesGeek is allowed to put whatever she wants in my mouth to make me look bad, and I'm not allowed to defend myself.

XFilesGeek wrote:

EDIT: I've already asked the other mods to review this thread. They'll decide what I've written is a "personal attack," which, considering you called anyone who accepts public healthcare a "diseased criminal" is rich indeed.

Another blatant straw man. I called diseased people who commit crimes diseased criminals. It shouldn't be that hard to apply the definitions of those two words, but I'm sure you're well aware of it and just wasting my time.

LoveNotHate
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27 Jul 2018, 9:43 am

Spiderpig wrote:

XFilesGeek wrote:

That's how this site is.

Participants assume you must have a "hidden motivation" for saying what you're saying.

Then they'll assume what your supposed hidden motivation is.

You'll spend an enormous amount of time just defending assumptions about your "hidden motivation".

It seems weird, as supposedly ASD people are said to be more direct (logical/spock-like, no hidden agenda … ) in their communications.
https://www.verywellhealth.com/top-terr ... ple-260321

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