911 issue: I wonder, what do majority of American ppl

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Fnord
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01 Sep 2008, 5:59 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Fnord wrote:
What exactly is the point of all their yelling, spamming, blogging, profanity, photoshopping, speculating, and intimidating rhetoric?

Though it is just an aspect of attention seeking, they desire to look important and others less so. If not, then they really believe it.... Which is worse?

The hostile expression of blind faith in something impossible to prove.



greenblue
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01 Sep 2008, 6:01 pm

Fnord wrote:
Magnus wrote:
Most people I know think that 9-11 was committed by the terrorists the way they show it on tv. The ones I know that think it is a conspiracy don't care to do anything about it. (shrugs shoulders)

I share your shrug.

I mean, if the 911CTers have a goal, it seems to be "attract attention" and nothing more. They offer no goals, resolutions, or or any plans for such, and they seem unwilling or unable to gain attention from anyone who might be able to represent their views in a credible way.

They have no goals?
How about the sites you have linked on your signature? What are their goals? isn't a similar goal?
Something they have in common is that they all try to debunk the opposite view or belief.


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Fnord
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01 Sep 2008, 6:05 pm

greenblue wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Magnus wrote:
Most people I know think that 9-11 was committed by the terrorists the way they show it on tv. The ones I know that think it is a conspiracy don't care to do anything about it. (shrugs shoulders)

I share your shrug.

I mean, if the 911CTers have a goal, it seems to be "attract attention" and nothing more. They offer no goals, resolutions, or or any plans for such, and they seem unwilling or unable to gain attention from anyone who might be able to represent their views in a credible way.

They have no goals?
How about the sites you have linked on your signature? What are their goals? isn't a similar goal?
Something they have in common is that they all try to debunk the opposite view or belief.

To what end?
Mine is the abolition of religion and superstition.



greenblue
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01 Sep 2008, 6:09 pm

Fnord wrote:
To what end?
Mine is the abolition of religion and superstition.

One could say, it would have the same or very similar results as the other, as the abolition of religion seems very unlikely.



Another note, if being skeptical makes a lot of sense, then being skeptical about 9/11 would make sense as well, not talking about conspiracy theorists though, just people who question the oficial story but also question and reject the conspiracy theories.


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ShawnWilliam
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01 Sep 2008, 6:26 pm

Wow.. I'm so not someone who seeks attention, I'm just someone who believes what I believe, the same way a christian believes what they believe.. the simple fact is people dont like chaos, and going around telling everyone something that challenges something they've already accepted as truth is too shocking to the system to even toy with the idea that they're wrong. People don't like to be told what to believe, and that's why you name call and b***h.

You forget that 'conspiracy theorists' are still a minority.. If you think it's fun to be name called and told im pathetic and crazy and ret*d and an idiot on a forum over and over then you're insane.. i dont like attention let alone to be thought of as more of a loser than I already feel from being an aspergie.. it actually hurts. But im not like you, and I dont stop believing something because Im scared of getting bitched at.

Id like to make peace with all of the people who dont agree with me.. im just a normal guy not a conspiracy theorist by nature.



Fnord
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01 Sep 2008, 6:33 pm

greenblue wrote:
Fnord wrote:
To what end?
Mine is the abolition of religion and superstition.

One could say, it would have the same or very similar results as the other, as the abolition of religion seems very unlikely.

Another note, if being skeptical makes a lot of sense, then being skeptical about 9/11 would make sense as well, not talking about conspiracy theorists though, just people who question the oficial story but also question and reject the conspiracy theories.

Being skeptical of both sides of an issue is much more healthy than blind faith in one.

I'm skeptical of the government's story, but in checking it out, I've found greater correlation to the observed facts in the government's organized, grounded, and consistant story that I've found in the multitude of 911CTer's convoluted, speculative, and self-contradictory stories.

So far, the government is winning out ... so far. So the 911CTers have to get their act together and provide one single story with greater organization, greater correlation, and greater consistancy than anything the government has put out so far.

In other words, 911CTers need to provide a bigger 'smoking gun' than the government and have it pointed in only one direction, instead of a lot of little ones pointed every which-a-way.



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01 Sep 2008, 6:54 pm

Quote:

In other words, 911CTers need to provide a bigger 'smoking gun' than the government and have it pointed in only one direction, instead of a lot of little ones pointed every which-a-way.


This infuriates me.. you put the burden on the "911CTers" to do everything and come up with the correct answeres.. Personally I thought it was everyone's business to discover the truth and everyone's business to do the right thing.. not just a few people who get kicked around and get their heads rubbed in the dirt.

Dont make it sound like "911CTers" all pretend to have ALL the answeres.. I think there are many inconsistent theories, but whatever the case may be, it's not up to a few criticized individuals to find all the answeres.

on a seperate note, If it seems like "911CTers" are trying to get attention it's because the only way to get through to people seems to be by being very outspoken. Otherwise you are drown out in the voice of the majority. IMO.



Fnord
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01 Sep 2008, 7:10 pm

ShawnWilliam wrote:
Fnord wrote:
]In other words, 911CTers need to provide a bigger 'smoking gun' than the government and have it pointed in only one direction, instead of a lot of little ones pointed every which-a-way.

This infuriates me.. you put the burden on the "911CTers" to do everything and come up with the correct answeres.

They are the ones making the claims, so they are the ones responsible for providing the proof.

ShawnWilliam wrote:
Personally I thought it was everyone's business to discover the truth and everyone's business to do the right thing.. not just a few people who get kicked around and get their heads rubbed in the dirt.

The truth I discover on my own is this: The magnitude of the proof increases in proportion to the claim. Simple claims require simple proof. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

ShawnWilliam wrote:
Dont make it sound like "911CTers" all pretend to have ALL the answeres.. I think there are many inconsistent theories, but whatever the case may be, it's not up to a few criticized individuals to find all the answeres.

The 911CTers are the ones who claim to have the answers. What they lack is validation for those answers - no validation == no proof.

ShawnWilliam wrote:
on a seperate note, If it seems like "911CTers" are trying to get attention it's because the only way to get through to people seems to be by being very outspoken. Otherwise you are drown out in the voice of the majority. IMO.

Get through to what people? The average geek who sits in front of his computer all day playing video games and pwning noobs? The average working-class stiff who is more concerned with keeping his job so that he can pay the bills, feed his family, and keep a roof over their heads? Tourists who are more concerned with buying junk and taking pictures of each other in front of Ground Zero? Other 911CTers who each have their own take on the correct spelling of the word 'thermite'?

They would do better to hire the engineers, lawyers, scientists, and investigators to provide the validation for their claims.



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01 Sep 2008, 7:21 pm

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Get through to what people? The average geek who sits in front of his computer all day playing video games and pwning noobs? The average working-class stiff who is more concerned with keeping his job so that he can pay the bills, feed his family, and keep a roof over their heads? Tourists who are more concerned with buying junk and taking pictures of each other in front of Ground Zero? Other 911CTers who each have their own take on the correct spelling of the word 'thermite'?

They would do better to hire the engineers, lawyers, scientists, and investigators to provide the validation for their claims.


you're a steriotypist. :roll:



Fnord
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01 Sep 2008, 7:26 pm

ShawnWilliam wrote:
Quote:
Get through to what people? The average geek who sits in front of his computer all day playing video games and pwning noobs? The average working-class stiff who is more concerned with keeping his job so that he can pay the bills, feed his family, and keep a roof over their heads? Tourists who are more concerned with buying junk and taking pictures of each other in front of Ground Zero? Other 911CTers who each have their own take on the correct spelling of the word 'thermite'?

They would do better to hire the engineers, lawyers, scientists, and investigators to provide the validation for their claims.

you're a steriotypist. :roll:

No, I'm a realist. Those types of people actually exist.

And with your ad hominem attack you've evaded the question, which is "Get through to what people?"



iamnotaparakeet
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01 Sep 2008, 7:48 pm

What? This is still being argued?



Fnord
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01 Sep 2008, 7:53 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
What? This is still being argued?

I just want my questions answered, that's all.



greenblue
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02 Sep 2008, 12:02 am

The issue here that I wonder, is, how much of a big deal is this for people in general, like being offended by conspiracy theorists, I personally don't care, but for those who had family members that died in the attacks, as the same with the Holocaust, I would assume these people would feel greatly offended with such claims, right?

or is it a matter of Political Correctness? This is an issue in which I don't feel like having an opinion to provide for, to be honest, other than it doesn't affect me.


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ShawnWilliam
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02 Sep 2008, 1:35 am

greenblue wrote:
The issue here that I wonder, is, how much of a big deal is this for people in general, like being offended by conspiracy theorists, I personally don't care, but for those who had family members that died in the attacks, as the same with the Holocaust, I would assume these people would feel greatly offended with such claims, right?

or is it a matter of Political Correctness? This is an issue in which I don't feel like having an opinion to provide for, to be honest, other than it doesn't affect me.


How can that really matter.. didn't you see the kid who went on the Bill O'Rheily show who's father died in the 911 attack.. Bill totally ripped the kid apart and the kid was trying to state his beliefs that the government was behind the attack.. So I don't see what the families have to do with it, there are many families that believe that the government was behind it.



ShawnWilliam
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02 Sep 2008, 1:37 am

Fnord wrote:
ShawnWilliam wrote:
Quote:
Get through to what people? The average geek who sits in front of his computer all day playing video games and pwning noobs? The average working-class stiff who is more concerned with keeping his job so that he can pay the bills, feed his family, and keep a roof over their heads? Tourists who are more concerned with buying junk and taking pictures of each other in front of Ground Zero? Other 911CTers who each have their own take on the correct spelling of the word 'thermite'?

They would do better to hire the engineers, lawyers, scientists, and investigators to provide the validation for their claims.

you're a steriotypist. :roll:

No, I'm a realist. Those types of people actually exist.

And with your ad hominem attack you've evaded the question, which is "Get through to what people?"


everyone? Nerd, construction worker, teacher, farmer?.. what difference does it make what their occupaton is mr. realist?..



Psimulus
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02 Sep 2008, 2:59 am

In reference to the spelling of thermite. The issue was whether thermite or thermate was utilized to melt structural steel. These are two different compounds. Many of the researchers believe that thermate was used because of the amount of sulfer in the molten steel and because of its temperature. Does anyone have an alternative version to what larry may have been talking about when they decided to pull the solomen brothers building? Why was the Bin-Laden family flown out of the country without first being detained for questioning when the rest of our planes were grounded? What was up with the war games taking place as the events on 9/11 were taking place? Does everyone really discount the witness accounts of the people that were actually there and reported ground level explosions? Are you aware Usama was an asset to the intel community? What happened to all the gold that was supposedly stored there?