US Healthcare reform
It absolutely amazes me how easy it is to persuade people to vote contrary to their best interests, and to vote instead in the best interests of other, wealthier people.
The end stage of Obama-Care is a system like Canada. Single payer. Get used to the idea. Get used to taking a number and waiting your turn.
ruveyn
That's just a scare tactic
...but then what can you expect from somebody who thinks that a poor person needing medical help should be left to die

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How can we outlaw a plant created by a perfect God?
That's just a scare tactic
No sir! That is reality in some of the Canadian Provinces. Take a number. Wait your turn. Or go to Bangalore India, if you can afford it.
ruveyn
BUT NOBODY IS SUGGESTING NATIONAL HEALTH CARE! THIS BILL IS ABOUT HEALTH INSURANCE! PERIOD!
IF OBAMA EVER COMES OUT WITH A PROPOSAL FOR NATIONAL HEALTH CARE, THEN SCREAM ALL YOU WANT. THIS IS ABOUT HEALTH INSURANCE.
WHY IS THAT SO HARD FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND???

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How can we outlaw a plant created by a perfect God?
I don't understand the argument about wait times at all. First, it is completely irrelevant considering this is not about a single payer system, as ed has been trying to get across. Secondly, since when don't Americans have to wait for care. The last time I had to take my mom to the ER we waited for over 18 hours! I also have had my son on a waiting list for a pediatric evaluation and it will be 1.5 years before he can be seen! I thought the receptionist was joking but it turns out the joke is on me. A lot of the wait time comparisons with other nations may have us slighly ahead, but that is because many Americans simply don't/can't/won't wait that long and leave without receiving care, whereas citizens in a government system usually stick it out.
No matter how it starts out, it ends up as Single Payer. Oh Canada!
The only alternative to a system that will go bankrupt in a few years is a system of rationing along with a two tier delivery so that the richest can afford to buy their care through a private system. Either the premiums are raised or the delivery is limited. There is no other way.
Take a number and wait your turn.
ruveyn
No matter how it starts out, it ends up as Single Payer. Oh Canada!
The only alternative to a system that will go bankrupt in a few years is a system of rationing along with a two tier delivery so that the richest can afford to buy their care through a private system. Either the premiums are raised or the delivery is limited. There is no other way.
Take a number and wait your turn.
ruveyn
Whew - and here I thought that the subject merited discussion and refinement in order to provide care and assistance to those in need. It is a relief to know that someone has thought through the whole thing for me in advance and has not only decided, but has absolute knowledge of what is going to happen.
...wait a minute, isn't that what a religion is? *chuckle*
M.
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My thanks to all the wonderful members here; I will miss the opportunity to continue to learn and work with you.
For those who seek an alternative, it is coming.
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
buttermilk is unhealthy.
fish is very healthy, though.
eat fish and rice every day and you'll live to be 100.
Make sure the rice has the hull. That is where the minerals and proteins are.
It's why I normally get parboiled rice.
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Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823
?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson
Also:
A) Who here has read the whole bill and the laws that it references?
B) http://factcheck.org
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Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823
?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson
buttermilk is unhealthy.
fish is very healthy, though.
eat fish and rice every day and you'll live to be 100.
Make sure the rice has the hull. That is where the minerals and proteins are.
It's why I normally get parboiled rice.
At the age of 83 and still in pretty good shape time speeds by rather quickly. To be sentenced to die in 17 years is rather chilling.
buttermilk is unhealthy.
fish is very healthy, though.
eat fish and rice every day and you'll live to be 100.
Make sure the rice has the hull. That is where the minerals and proteins are.
It's why I normally get parboiled rice.
At the age of 83 and still in pretty good shape time speeds by rather quickly. To be sentenced to die in 17 years is rather chilling.
At that point, why even bother considering it? I'm 24 going on 25. That's a long ways away. I wish you 75 years on where you're at just like I'm wishing 75 on where I'm at.
We're all sentenced to die eventually...just don't think about it too much. We've got plenty distractions in the meantime.

_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823
?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson
buttermilk is unhealthy.
fish is very healthy, though.
eat fish and rice every day and you'll live to be 100.
Make sure the rice has the hull. That is where the minerals and proteins are.
It's why I normally get parboiled rice.
At the age of 83 and still in pretty good shape time speeds by rather quickly. To be sentenced to die in 17 years is rather chilling.
At that point, why even bother considering it? I'm 24 going on 25. That's a long ways away. I wish you 75 years on where you're at just like I'm wishing 75 on where I'm at.
We're all sentenced to die eventually...just don't think about it too much. We've got plenty distractions in the meantime.

Things are just beginning to get interesting. When I was a kid in the 1930's and read science fiction I became aware of the things that are occurring today at a rapid pace and I was impatient to go hopping around on the Moon but the reality is rather daunting. To feel comfortable I need another 500 years to put the inevitable in the back of my mind. At the conclusion of that brief interim I'll decide again.
buttermilk is unhealthy.
fish is very healthy, though.
eat fish and rice every day and you'll live to be 100.
Make sure the rice has the hull. That is where the minerals and proteins are.
It's why I normally get parboiled rice.
At the age of 83 and still in pretty good shape time speeds by rather quickly. To be sentenced to die in 17 years is rather chilling.
At that point, why even bother considering it? I'm 24 going on 25. That's a long ways away. I wish you 75 years on where you're at just like I'm wishing 75 on where I'm at.
We're all sentenced to die eventually...just don't think about it too much. We've got plenty distractions in the meantime.

Things are just beginning to get interesting. When I was a kid in the 1930's and read science fiction I became aware of the things that are occurring today at a rapid pace and I was impatient to go hopping around on the Moon but the reality is rather daunting. To feel comfortable I need another 500 years to put the inevitable in the back of my mind. At the conclusion of that brief interim I'll decide again.
Same here...I'd love to make it a few hundred years to see where everything goes.
Unless it results in a giant step back in knowledge somewhere along the line. Last thing I want is to be caught in another dark age. I'll surely be burned as a satanic, evil being in such a case.
_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823
?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson
buttermilk is unhealthy.
fish is very healthy, though.
eat fish and rice every day and you'll live to be 100.
Make sure the rice has the hull. That is where the minerals and proteins are.
It's why I normally get parboiled rice.
At the age of 83 and still in pretty good shape time speeds by rather quickly. To be sentenced to die in 17 years is rather chilling.
At that point, why even bother considering it? I'm 24 going on 25. That's a long ways away. I wish you 75 years on where you're at just like I'm wishing 75 on where I'm at.
We're all sentenced to die eventually...just don't think about it too much. We've got plenty distractions in the meantime.

Things are just beginning to get interesting. When I was a kid in the 1930's and read science fiction I became aware of the things that are occurring today at a rapid pace and I was impatient to go hopping around on the Moon but the reality is rather daunting. To feel comfortable I need another 500 years to put the inevitable in the back of my mind. At the conclusion of that brief interim I'll decide again.
Same here...I'd love to make it a few hundred years to see where everything goes.
Unless it results in a giant step back in knowledge somewhere along the line. Last thing I want is to be caught in another dark age. I'll surely be burned as a satanic, evil being in such a case.
It looks like the avalanche of new knowledge will push aside the ignorant maniacs now in control of much of the world. The USA as a nation is rapidly becoming a total nut case ruled by idiots with the motivations of termites destroying the house in which they live and I am happy to be away from that. But I admit things are up in the air and it is turning rather bad. When posters on this site which has a rather high content of bright and thinking people still deny global warming and even the original lunar landing it's evident dark forces are roaming the world.
buttermilk is unhealthy.
fish is very healthy, though.
eat fish and rice every day and you'll live to be 100.
Make sure the rice has the hull. That is where the minerals and proteins are.
It's why I normally get parboiled rice.
At the age of 83 and still in pretty good shape time speeds by rather quickly. To be sentenced to die in 17 years is rather chilling.
At that point, why even bother considering it? I'm 24 going on 25. That's a long ways away. I wish you 75 years on where you're at just like I'm wishing 75 on where I'm at.
We're all sentenced to die eventually...just don't think about it too much. We've got plenty distractions in the meantime.

Things are just beginning to get interesting. When I was a kid in the 1930's and read science fiction I became aware of the things that are occurring today at a rapid pace and I was impatient to go hopping around on the Moon but the reality is rather daunting. To feel comfortable I need another 500 years to put the inevitable in the back of my mind. At the conclusion of that brief interim I'll decide again.
Same here...I'd love to make it a few hundred years to see where everything goes.
Unless it results in a giant step back in knowledge somewhere along the line. Last thing I want is to be caught in another dark age. I'll surely be burned as a satanic, evil being in such a case.
It looks like the avalanche of new knowledge will push aside the ignorant maniacs now in control of much of the world. The USA as a nation is rapidly becoming a total nut case ruled by idiots with the motivations of termites destroying the house in which they live and I am happy to be away from that. But I admit things are up in the air and it is turning rather bad. When posters on this site which has a rather high content of bright and thinking people still deny global warming and even the original lunar landing it's evident dark forces are roaming the world.
Speaking of nut cases in leadership in the US:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt105351.html
I agree...I see it. There's a reason why I'll sporadically complain about people rejecting their humanity and sapience in favor of letting others decide for them...because it represents a much larger move away from knowledge and technology and a retreat from our humanity to a more base, animalistic element. That's a big fear of mine...that this trend continues gaining momentum and the media simply feeds it through sensationalism and a dedication to ratings over fact.
When I hear people who I once thought were reasonable talking about civil war because of Obama and paranoia over healthcare...it starts to concern me.
And yes, I've heard people talk about a coming civil war. And yes, it was from that lunatic "right wing" side of thinking. Quotations used because I don't think such insanity is fair to right wing ideology that actually forms its basis more in reality. Such as the mandate to lower government spending and government intrusion on private lives that normally.....used to formulate from the right. Now it just seems the "right wing" is merely a severe case of paranoia and xenophobia that's growing more and more volatile and threatening more and more to become violent. Again: the American Midwest is more like the Middle East than anyone in the US will ever admit...and will probably end up having as many terrorists.
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Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823
?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson
I did. All 1017 pages of HR 3200. I am not a lawyer, so I cannot claim to have understood it the way the courts and the burocracy will.
ruveyn
No matter how it starts out, it ends up as Single Payer. Oh Canada!
The only alternative to a system that will go bankrupt in a few years is a system of rationing along with a two tier delivery so that the richest can afford to buy their care through a private system. Either the premiums are raised or the delivery is limited. There is no other way.
Take a number and wait your turn.
ruveyn
Look, as you've said before, your objection to this bill is that you think that poor people should be allowed to die instead of spending government money to cure them. While that viewpoint disgusts me, it IS a valid point-of-view. If you want to fight this bill, you should do so on that basis. What you are doing is intellectually dishonest.
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How can we outlaw a plant created by a perfect God?