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TeaEarlGreyHot
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28 Mar 2011, 2:37 pm

Bataar wrote:
Orwell wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I'm not denying there are a lot of racists IN the Tea Party. There certainly are.

However, I do not think racism is the driving factor for the Tea Party stance.

Perhaps not THE driving factor, but it seems to be a significant undercurrent. The Birthers are the ones most obviously driven by racism.

How so? In what way is it even a race issue for anyone to use the possibility that a president they don't like was not born in the U.S. to get him out of office? I guarantee you, that if there had been any question at all that President Bush hadn't been born in the U.S., he would be getting the same flack from the left, if not more so than Obama has received. Would that have been racist?


You're right, it's not an issue of race. It's a religious issue for most birthers. They just don't want anyone in office that has familial ties to Islam.


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Inuyasha
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28 Mar 2011, 3:47 pm

Bataar wrote:
Orwell wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I'm not denying there are a lot of racists IN the Tea Party. There certainly are.

However, I do not think racism is the driving factor for the Tea Party stance.

Perhaps not THE driving factor, but it seems to be a significant undercurrent. The Birthers are the ones most obviously driven by racism.

How so? In what way is it even a race issue for anyone to use the possibility that a president they don't like was not born in the U.S. to get him out of office? I guarantee you, that if there had been any question at all that President Bush hadn't been born in the U.S., he would be getting the same flack from the left, if not more so than Obama has received. Would that have been racist?


If Obama was not born in the USA and his mother was not a US Citizen, then under the Constitution he is not eligible to be President of the United States. The reasoning behind this being in the Constitution is to ensure that the President's first loyalty is always to the US, and there is as little ties to another country as possible.

I personally believe his mom is really his mom, and it wouldn't surprise me if he was born in Hawaii, it also wouldn't surprise me if he was born in Kenya. I'm leaning with he was born in the states, but this not releasing his birth certificate is getting to be highly annoying.



ruveyn
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28 Mar 2011, 4:25 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

I personally believe his mom is really his mom, and it wouldn't surprise me if he was born in Hawaii, it also wouldn't surprise me if he was born in Kenya. I'm leaning with he was born in the states, but this not releasing his birth certificate is getting to be highly annoying.


His mamma says she was in Hawaii when she gave birth and the hospital records and the o.b. back her up. So whence cometh the "if"? Lord Obama was born in U.S. territory.

ruveyn



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28 Mar 2011, 4:28 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:

I personally believe his mom is really his mom, and it wouldn't surprise me if he was born in Hawaii, it also wouldn't surprise me if he was born in Kenya. I'm leaning with he was born in the states, but this not releasing his birth certificate is getting to be highly annoying.


His mamma says she was in Hawaii when she gave birth and the hospital records and the o.b. back her up. So whence cometh the "if"? Lord Obama was born in U.S. territory.

ruveyn


As I said I'm leaning with he was born in the states, that said I think he should release the birth certificate so we can actually get down to discussing issues instead of the needless distraction.



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28 Mar 2011, 4:31 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

As I said I'm leaning with he was born in the states, that said I think he should release the birth certificate so we can actually get down to discussing issues instead of the needless distraction.


Short of being in the delivery room what would totally convince you?

If Lord Obama were not born in the U.S. evidence could be easily gathered to that effect. The facts surrounding his birth are, in the practical sense, irrefutable. Of course you could always argue that Aliens used a beam to implant a false memory in everyone's brain. Sort of like in Men in Black. But such supposition are just plain bat-sh*t crazy.

ruveyn



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28 Mar 2011, 4:37 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:

As I said I'm leaning with he was born in the states, that said I think he should release the birth certificate so we can actually get down to discussing issues instead of the needless distraction.


Short of being in the delivery room what would totally convince you?

If Lord Obama were not born in the U.S. evidence could be easily gathered to that effect. The facts surrounding his birth are, in the practical sense, irrefutable. Of course you could always argue that Aliens used a beam to implant a false memory in everyone's brain. Sort of like in Men in Black. But such supposition are just plain bat-sh*t crazy.

ruveyn


Well his birth certificate and/or the newspaper article that stated he was born in such and such hospital.



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28 Mar 2011, 4:51 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:

As I said I'm leaning with he was born in the states, that said I think he should release the birth certificate so we can actually get down to discussing issues instead of the needless distraction.


Short of being in the delivery room what would totally convince you?

If Lord Obama were not born in the U.S. evidence could be easily gathered to that effect. The facts surrounding his birth are, in the practical sense, irrefutable. Of course you could always argue that Aliens used a beam to implant a false memory in everyone's brain. Sort of like in Men in Black. But such supposition are just plain bat-sh*t crazy.

ruveyn


Well his birth certificate and/or the newspaper article that stated he was born in such and such hospital.


Here's both.

Jon Stewart also did a funny bit about how since the birthers acknowledge that his mother was at least pregnant in Hawaii, that Obama must be a citizen by default since life starts at conception (according to most birthers). So either a) Obama is a citizen or b) life doesn't really start at conception. They just can't have it both ways. :wink:



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28 Mar 2011, 5:18 pm

I think it's hilarious how many Americans honestly believe there's some conspiracy to cover up Obama's birth certificate.


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28 Mar 2011, 5:31 pm

number5 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:

As I said I'm leaning with he was born in the states, that said I think he should release the birth certificate so we can actually get down to discussing issues instead of the needless distraction.


Short of being in the delivery room what would totally convince you?

If Lord Obama were not born in the U.S. evidence could be easily gathered to that effect. The facts surrounding his birth are, in the practical sense, irrefutable. Of course you could always argue that Aliens used a beam to implant a false memory in everyone's brain. Sort of like in Men in Black. But such supposition are just plain bat-sh*t crazy.

ruveyn


Well his birth certificate and/or the newspaper article that stated he was born in such and such hospital.


Here's both.

Jon Stewart also did a funny bit about how since the birthers acknowledge that his mother was at least pregnant in Hawaii, that Obama must be a citizen by default since life starts at conception (according to most birthers). So either a) Obama is a citizen or b) life doesn't really start at conception. They just can't have it both ways. :wink:


:lol:


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28 Mar 2011, 6:11 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Bataar wrote:
Orwell wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I'm not denying there are a lot of racists IN the Tea Party. There certainly are.

However, I do not think racism is the driving factor for the Tea Party stance.

Perhaps not THE driving factor, but it seems to be a significant undercurrent. The Birthers are the ones most obviously driven by racism.

How so? In what way is it even a race issue for anyone to use the possibility that a president they don't like was not born in the U.S. to get him out of office? I guarantee you, that if there had been any question at all that President Bush hadn't been born in the U.S., he would be getting the same flack from the left, if not more so than Obama has received. Would that have been racist?


If Obama was not born in the USA and his mother was not a US Citizen, then under the Constitution he is not eligible to be President of the United States. The reasoning behind this being in the Constitution is to ensure that the President's first loyalty is always to the US, and there is as little ties to another country as possible.

I personally believe his mom is really his mom, and it wouldn't surprise me if he was born in Hawaii, it also wouldn't surprise me if he was born in Kenya. I'm leaning with he was born in the states, but this not releasing his birth certificate is getting to be highly annoying.


Inuyasha, I must thank you for not going over the deep end with Obama's place of origin.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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28 Mar 2011, 6:15 pm

Bataar wrote:
Orwell wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I'm not denying there are a lot of racists IN the Tea Party. There certainly are.

However, I do not think racism is the driving factor for the Tea Party stance.

Perhaps not THE driving factor, but it seems to be a significant undercurrent. The Birthers are the ones most obviously driven by racism.

How so? In what way is it even a race issue for anyone to use the possibility that a president they don't like was not born in the U.S. to get him out of office? I guarantee you, that if there had been any question at all that President Bush hadn't been born in the U.S., he would be getting the same flack from the left, if not more so than Obama has received. Would that have been racist?


Of course it's about racism. If the current president's father had come from Germany or Ireland, but said president was born in America, no one would have dreamed of bringing up this issue. But because Obama is black is the reason why the lunatic fringe is coming out full force in this matter.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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28 Mar 2011, 6:24 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Bataar wrote:
Orwell wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I'm not denying there are a lot of racists IN the Tea Party. There certainly are.

However, I do not think racism is the driving factor for the Tea Party stance.

Perhaps not THE driving factor, but it seems to be a significant undercurrent. The Birthers are the ones most obviously driven by racism.

How so? In what way is it even a race issue for anyone to use the possibility that a president they don't like was not born in the U.S. to get him out of office? I guarantee you, that if there had been any question at all that President Bush hadn't been born in the U.S., he would be getting the same flack from the left, if not more so than Obama has received. Would that have been racist?


Of course it's about racism. If the current president's father had come from Germany or Ireland, but said president was born in America, no one would have dreamed of bringing up this issue. But because Obama is black is the reason why the lunatic fringe is coming out full force in this matter.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I didn't realize religious discrimination was considered racism.


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28 Mar 2011, 6:48 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Bataar wrote:
Orwell wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I'm not denying there are a lot of racists IN the Tea Party. There certainly are.

However, I do not think racism is the driving factor for the Tea Party stance.

Perhaps not THE driving factor, but it seems to be a significant undercurrent. The Birthers are the ones most obviously driven by racism.

How so? In what way is it even a race issue for anyone to use the possibility that a president they don't like was not born in the U.S. to get him out of office? I guarantee you, that if there had been any question at all that President Bush hadn't been born in the U.S., he would be getting the same flack from the left, if not more so than Obama has received. Would that have been racist?


Of course it's about racism. If the current president's father had come from Germany or Ireland, but said president was born in America, no one would have dreamed of bringing up this issue. But because Obama is black is the reason why the lunatic fringe is coming out full force in this matter.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

If the current president's father had come from German or Ireland but said president was born in America, no one would have dramed of bringing it up because there would be no law against it. The issue isn't where Obama's father was born, but where Obama himself was born. There are people who believe he was actually born in Kenya, not Hawaii, which would make it illegal to be president. If you're a person who disagrees with the president's policies and there is a conspiracy that shows it may be illegal for him to be president, you'd probably be supporting it too. Like I said, if there was evidence that President Bush was not born in the U.S. and it was illegal for him to be president, the uproar would have been huge. Again, it's not about race.



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28 Mar 2011, 6:54 pm

Bataar wrote:
If the current president's father had come from German or Ireland but said president was born in America, no one would have dramed of bringing it up because there would be no law against it. The issue isn't where Obama's father was born, but where Obama himself was born. There are people who believe he was actually born in Kenya, not Hawaii, which would make it illegal to be president. If you're a person who disagrees with the president's policies and there is a conspiracy that shows it may be illegal for him to be president, you'd probably be supporting it too. Like I said, if there was evidence that President Bush was not born in the U.S. and it was illegal for him to be president, the uproar would have been huge. Again, it's not about race.


Says who? Some of us that don't like Obama's policies are adult enough to acknowledge he did not take office illegally.


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28 Mar 2011, 6:56 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Bataar wrote:
If the current president's father had come from German or Ireland but said president was born in America, no one would have dramed of bringing it up because there would be no law against it. The issue isn't where Obama's father was born, but where Obama himself was born. There are people who believe he was actually born in Kenya, not Hawaii, which would make it illegal to be president. If you're a person who disagrees with the president's policies and there is a conspiracy that shows it may be illegal for him to be president, you'd probably be supporting it too. Like I said, if there was evidence that President Bush was not born in the U.S. and it was illegal for him to be president, the uproar would have been huge. Again, it's not about race.


Says who? Some of us that don't like Obama's policies are adult enough to acknowledge he did not take office illegally.

I'm not saying you are. I'm trying to show that the birthers are trying to get him out of office because they don't like his policies, not because he's half black.



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28 Mar 2011, 6:59 pm

Ah... okay.

Some definitely are doing it because Obama is half black. I've actually been told by a birther that she agreed with his policies but 'a black can't be president'.


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