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Tequila
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14 Aug 2011, 1:36 pm

ruveyn wrote:
I have not lit up a cigarette in 48 years, but I still consider myself a smoker.


Good for you.

The other dimension in bullying people into giving up smoking is that they become 'ex'-smokers rather than giving up - i.e. they still smoke but do it in secret.



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14 Aug 2011, 5:35 pm

Medically, there is no question about the links between tobacco use and a list of respiratory and cardiovascular diseases. There is absolutely no question in my mind that smoking is a destructive behaviour.

The evidence is more equivocal about second hand smoke. I would not be prepared to make a categorical statement about the impacts, particularly given the range of other environmental factors that people must contend with. I will go so far as to say that a person is better off not being exposed to second hand smoke than being exposed--but that does not mean that exposure is ipso facto harmful.

But to the extent that smoking restrictions serve to protect non-smokers, I am prepared to countenance them. However, I see a few places where smoking bans have had a contrary effect--particularly on board aircraft. Smoking bans have allowed airlines to reduce air exchange, by recirculating more air from the cabin. While this saves fuel and expense (cabin air comes from a direct bleed from the engines), it also provides a less healthy environment and facilitates transmission of airborne disease vectors.

I'm generally okay with smokers lighting up, after all, that's one of the things that keeps me in business.


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14 Aug 2011, 10:38 pm

visagrunt wrote:
Medically, there is no question about the links between tobacco use and a list of respiratory and cardiovascular diseases. There is absolutely no question in my mind that smoking is a destructive behaviour.

The evidence is more equivocal about second hand smoke. I would not be prepared to make a categorical statement about the impacts, particularly given the range of other environmental factors that people must contend with. I will go so far as to say that a person is better off not being exposed to second hand smoke than being exposed--but that does not mean that exposure is ipso facto harmful.

But to the extent that smoking restrictions serve to protect non-smokers, I am prepared to countenance them. However, I see a few places where smoking bans have had a contrary effect--particularly on board aircraft. Smoking bans have allowed airlines to reduce air exchange, by recirculating more air from the cabin. While this saves fuel and expense (cabin air comes from a direct bleed from the engines), it also provides a less healthy environment and facilitates transmission of airborne disease vectors.

I'm generally okay with smokers lighting up, after all, that's one of the things that keeps me in business.


Boldness topic

8O


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simon_says
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14 Aug 2011, 11:18 pm

Having lived in the era where clouds of smoke filled every public space, I quite enjoy the limits on smoking.



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14 Aug 2011, 11:27 pm

visagrunt wrote:
I'm generally okay with smokers lighting up, after all, that's one of the things that keeps me in business.


My wife would understand completely, she works in an ER from time to time and refers to motorcycles as "donorcycles". :lol:


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15 Aug 2011, 12:43 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
I don't give a damn what people do behind the doors of their own houses.

But I won't stop antagonizing smokers until they are required to smoke either within their own house which they own rather than rent or within a personal size tent with a built in filtration system.

Because you have no right to pollute my life with your addiction.


Ok well I am not allowed to smoke inside of my moms house were I live.......so my only option is go for a walk and stay out of non-smokers way, go in the front yard or back yard or if it is raining the tool shed works great.

If someone has an issue with me smoking outside on the property I live on.......or out of the way outside, I think they are being a bit ridiculous.



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15 Aug 2011, 12:45 pm

And if you live in a city ciggerette smoke is the least of your worries......do you know how many contaminates are usually in the air in large cities? yeah stopping people from smoking outside is not going to fix that problem you would also have to tell people to stop driving, stop doing construction, or stop doing anything that could put not so healthy particles in the air and well that is not going to happen.



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15 Aug 2011, 12:46 pm

There is no reason to prohibit smoking in The Great Outdoors. The smoke dissipates very quickly, thus eliminating the "second hand smoke" problem.

ruveyn



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25 Aug 2011, 11:34 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
And if you live in a city ciggerette smoke is the least of your worries......do you know how many contaminates are usually in the air in large cities? yeah stopping people from smoking outside is not going to fix that problem you would also have to tell people to stop driving, stop doing construction, or stop doing anything that could put not so healthy particles in the air and well that is not going to happen.


You younger folks, fortunately, never experienced the bad old days, of people smoking openly in airplanes, buses, schools, restaurants, hospitals, and anywhere they damn pleased.

We've become much more civilized since then.



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25 Aug 2011, 12:27 pm

I was a long time smoker. Chain smoker even. I live in a damn cold area and I never had a problem going out in -25C to have a puff. I enjoyed the fresh air and the blast of cold was like a kick in the ass magnitudes greater than caffeine. When I hear smokers complain about having to go outside I think to myself "Man the f**k up"

Its also simple: smoke is not good for people (whether its from a lit cigar or from your damn house burning down around you). I made the choice to smoke but I always ensured it was not bothering others. Have a care


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25 Aug 2011, 4:41 pm

Fnord wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Smoking OUTSIDE isn't imposing anything on anyone unless they have a victim complex or are a control freak.

Unless, of course, the smokers stand right outside the door and their smoke blows in to a designated non-smoking area.


When I went to High School, I knew of pricks (or, rather, crowds of pricks) who'd do that.


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Tequila
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25 Aug 2011, 4:49 pm

Vigilans wrote:
When I hear smokers complain about having to go outside I think to myself "Man the f**k up"


So you'd be quite happy to have to go outside in the driving, freezing rain every time you wanted a cigarette? You're paying over the odds for this as an experience, remember.

I notice that anti-smokers are perfectly happy to see them do that but the very moment that a pub garden becomes inhabitable they start up with the fake coughing, even from several tables away. It's more to do with smoker hatred than not. And a lot of these smokers, along with others, have therefore become distanced from 'regular' society. Larger outgroups are being created.

No; they'll just think that they're not going to go out to stand in an empty pub, with grumpy staff, overpriced drinks and a lack of any atmosphere. A lot of them have taken their friends with them and drink at home instead. There are already the beginnings of a 'chop-chop'/smuggling industry in Britain anyway.



Last edited by Tequila on 25 Aug 2011, 4:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Tequila
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25 Aug 2011, 4:53 pm

pandabear wrote:
You younger folks, fortunately, never experienced the bad old days, of people smoking openly in airplanes, buses, schools, restaurants, hospitals, and anywhere they damn pleased.


No-one is asking for a return to those days.

All the pro-choice movement asks for is that free adults can freely choose to associate in licenced premises that will happily accommodate them. Or can choose not to accommodate them, or even smokers.



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25 Aug 2011, 5:03 pm

Tequila wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
When I hear smokers complain about having to go outside I think to myself "Man the f**k up"


So you'd be quite happy to have to go outside in the driving, freezing rain every time you wanted a cigarette? You're paying over the odds for this as an experience, remember.



Yep, no problem from me. As I stated I was a chain smoker and I had no problem going out in -25C or worse, blizzards, freezing rain, whatever. "Nut up or shut up" You make the choice to smoke you deal with the consequences. You must be aware smoking causes cancer, which is much worse than a little bit of inclement weather. If you can deal with the almost inevitability of lung problems you can deal with the great outdoors. As a conservative I would expect you to support the notion that a minority (smokers) should not force their choices upon a majority

As for smoker hatred that is a bunch of garbage (like fake coughing or whatever) and I couldn't agree more with you. I still smoke cigars on occasion (enjoyed a lovely Cuban a few days ago actually).


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Last edited by Vigilans on 25 Aug 2011, 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tequila
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25 Aug 2011, 5:05 pm

Vigilans wrote:
As a conservative I would expect you to support the notion that a minority (smokers) should not force their choices upon a majority.


Precisely. So let the market decide.



Tequila
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25 Aug 2011, 5:08 pm

Vigilans wrote:
If you can deal with the almost inevitability of lung problems you can deal with the great outdoors.


You do know that the lungs they put on the back of cigarette packets aren't smokers lungs? They're the lungs of a coal miner.

I'm sure that smoking doesn't do a lot of good, but then smokers know this anyway. They take the risk. And I would suspect that lung disease is far less of an issue than is being thought (i.e. smoking is being put down as a possible cause when it could also not be that too).



Last edited by Tequila on 25 Aug 2011, 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.