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look at what these famous non muslims say about muhammad

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puddingmouse
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02 Feb 2013, 5:13 pm

MCalavera wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
salad wrote:

and what do you mean by wrong. just because it's right you assume it's wrong. why do you accept some hadiths but not the others??? you go on about Hadiths talking about his marriage to Aisha and ignore every other hadith, such as how he treated her, how she loved him, why he even married her etc. you don't pick and choose which hadiths to accept and which to reject


By wrong, I mean incorrect. Like in the Bible where it says pi = 3. There may be similarly blatantly wrong assertions like that in the Quran. Ones that you can even prove wrong with science.


What's the correct value for Pi then?


Not 3. You couldn't fit it in a book, even a book that is supposedly 'God breathed'. It's like the proverbial rock that's even too big for God to lift it.

The reason it says pi = 3 is because humans wrote the Bible, and those humans probably didn't understand fractions at the time. At least not well enough to get that pi doesn't exactly = 3. If it was God-inspired, God would probably have explained the maths (after all, it is HIS coding) to the authors - just so His text could stand the test of time.



Last edited by puddingmouse on 02 Feb 2013, 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MCalavera
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02 Feb 2013, 5:18 pm

salad wrote:
i believe it because that IS the reason why he married Aisha. denial won't help you. if he really was a man of lust then why were almost all his wives OLD WIDOWS??


Because maybe he was into cougars? I don't know. But surely this doesn't preclude the fact that he still got married to a very young girl. So I'm not sure how this goes in your favor.

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Muhammad PBUH was 25 and in the prime of his youth, the most handsome man in arabia, and the strongest, yet you know who he chose as his wife?? Khadija, a twice widowed woman who was 40, 15 years older than him, even though all the most beautiful and young virgin women could have married him, but instead he chose khadja and married only her until she died.


Well, maybe he wasn't attracted much to women his age. They either had to be significantly older or way younger, I guess.

How do you know he was the most handsome man in Arabia by the way? You sure have a blind love towards that guy, do you?

Quote:
infact he even said the only woman he married out of love was khadija (he loved his other wives but he never married them out of love). that pretty much demolishes the muhammad married for lust bandwagon. he only remarried after khadija died, but before that the only woman he loved was khadija and he remained faithful towards her until she died. coincidence?? i don't think so. why do you think Aisha was so jealous of khadija. that leads to my second my point. why was aisha jealous?? it was because he loved khadija more than her. in other words, she loved Muhammad PBUH so much that she was angry that there was someone that he loved more than her. she used to ALWAYS ask him who he loved the most and she would be delighted whenever he said aisha. she even bragged about it to the other wives. so much for aisha not wanting to marry him. it seems more like it was an honor for her to marry him.


He may have loved Khadija the most, but you still haven't demonstrated that he didn't have lust for her Aisha.

Also, it doesn't really serve your position well to just assume that words are enough to justify one's actions. He may have said that Khadija was the only one he married out of love, but why then did he actually have to get married to Aisha if there was no love involved? He could've easily just adopted her as a child, and that's that.



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02 Feb 2013, 5:18 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
salad wrote:

and what do you mean by wrong. just because it's right you assume it's wrong. why do you accept some hadiths but not the others??? you go on about Hadiths talking about his marriage to Aisha and ignore every other hadith, such as how he treated her, how she loved him, why he even married her etc. you don't pick and choose which hadiths to accept and which to reject


By wrong, I mean incorrect. Like in the Bible where it says pi = 3. There may be similarly blatantly wrong assertions like that in the Quran. Ones that you can even prove wrong with science.


What's the correct value for Pi then?


Not 3. You couldn't fit it in a book, even a book that is supposedly 'God breathed'. It's like the proverbial rock that's even too big for God to lift it.


Ok, what should the value have been in the Bible?



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02 Feb 2013, 5:21 pm

MCalavera wrote:
How do you know he was the most handsome man in Arabia by the way? You sure have a blind love towards that guy, do you?


I think Nigel Farage is a hella awesome politician, and Pat Condell is a hella brilliant polemicist but I don't think either of those two are particularly attractive. One of them reminds me of my cousin. The cousin that sliced his head off on a railway line.



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02 Feb 2013, 5:23 pm

MCalavera wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
salad wrote:

and what do you mean by wrong. just because it's right you assume it's wrong. why do you accept some hadiths but not the others??? you go on about Hadiths talking about his marriage to Aisha and ignore every other hadith, such as how he treated her, how she loved him, why he even married her etc. you don't pick and choose which hadiths to accept and which to reject


By wrong, I mean incorrect. Like in the Bible where it says pi = 3. There may be similarly blatantly wrong assertions like that in the Quran. Ones that you can even prove wrong with science.


What's the correct value for Pi then?


Not 3. You couldn't fit it in a book, even a book that is supposedly 'God breathed'. It's like the proverbial rock that's even too big for God to lift it.


Ok, what should the value have been in the Bible?


If you think God talks to humans and tells them to write stuff down, you'd think he tell them something more accurate than 3. But since it's probably an entirely human invention, I guess 3 is a good guess for an ancient civilisation.



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02 Feb 2013, 5:28 pm

Tequila wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
How do you know he was the most handsome man in Arabia by the way? You sure have a blind love towards that guy, do you?


I think Nigel Farage is a hella awesome politician, and Pat Condell is a hella brilliant polemicist but I don't think either of those two are particularly attractive. One of them reminds me of my cousin. The cousin that sliced his head off on a railway line.


By accident? Or do you mean suicide?



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02 Feb 2013, 5:29 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
If you think God talks to humans


If I said that God had a good natter with me the other night, what would you think of me? Be honest now.



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02 Feb 2013, 5:30 pm

MCalavera wrote:
By accident? Or do you mean suicide?


Suicide. He laid his head down on the track at a very obscure time to be walking down a railway line.



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02 Feb 2013, 5:31 pm

Tequila wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
If you think God talks to humans


If I said that God had a good natter with me the other night, what would you think of me? Be honest now.


Schizomophrenia



MCalavera
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02 Feb 2013, 5:32 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
salad wrote:

and what do you mean by wrong. just because it's right you assume it's wrong. why do you accept some hadiths but not the others??? you go on about Hadiths talking about his marriage to Aisha and ignore every other hadith, such as how he treated her, how she loved him, why he even married her etc. you don't pick and choose which hadiths to accept and which to reject


By wrong, I mean incorrect. Like in the Bible where it says pi = 3. There may be similarly blatantly wrong assertions like that in the Quran. Ones that you can even prove wrong with science.


What's the correct value for Pi then?


Not 3. You couldn't fit it in a book, even a book that is supposedly 'God breathed'. It's like the proverbial rock that's even too big for God to lift it.


Ok, what should the value have been in the Bible?


If you think God talks to humans and tells them to write stuff down, you'd think he tell them something more accurate than 3. But since it's probably an entirely human invention, I guess 3 is a good guess for an ancient civilisation.


It's irrelevant whether the Bible is God-breathed or not. Obviously, the Bible was written by mortal men and not divinely inspired in any way, but even if it was, you're saying that 3 isn't the correct value? So what exactly is the correct value then?

I understand that God should have revealed something really interesting in his Bible (assuming he exists and he inspired the Bible) like a more precise value of Pi, but how does this mean that 3 isn't a correct value of Pi? Round it to the nearest one and it is 3.



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02 Feb 2013, 5:37 pm

MCalavera wrote:
It's irrelevant whether the Bible is God-breathed or not. Obviously, the Bible was written by mortal men and not divinely inspired in any way, but even if it was, you're saying that 3 isn't the correct value? So what exactly is the correct value then?

I understand that God should have revealed something really interesting in his Bible (assuming he exists and he inspired the Bible) like a more precise value of Pi, but how does this mean that 3 isn't a correct value of Pi? Round it to the nearest one and it is 3.


You can prove it yourself. I did this years ago when I was in high school, and I don't feel the need to repeat it (with the compass, ruler and string). Divide the circumference by the diameter and you don't get exactly 3.

If you're trying to make me prove that maths actually proves stuff, then I don't have the expertise in philosophy or maths to do that.



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02 Feb 2013, 5:45 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
Schizomophrenia


I agree.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to find my camels.



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02 Feb 2013, 5:50 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
It's irrelevant whether the Bible is God-breathed or not. Obviously, the Bible was written by mortal men and not divinely inspired in any way, but even if it was, you're saying that 3 isn't the correct value? So what exactly is the correct value then?

I understand that God should have revealed something really interesting in his Bible (assuming he exists and he inspired the Bible) like a more precise value of Pi, but how does this mean that 3 isn't a correct value of Pi? Round it to the nearest one and it is 3.


You can prove it yourself. I did this years ago when I was in high school, and I don't feel the need to repeat it (with the compass, ruler and string). Divide the circumference by the diameter and you don't get exactly 3.

If you're trying to make me prove that maths actually proves stuff, then I don't have the expertise in philosophy or maths to do that.


I never said it was exactly 3, but the thing with irrational numbers like Pi is that there's no actual discrete correct value. So rounding it off to the nearest decimal position of your choice is the closest way to expressing irrational values correctly.

So Pi equal to 3 is not entirely incorrect and may be considered mathematically correct depending on how precise you want the value to be.

If the Bible had mentioned that Pi was equal to 3.14 instead, would you have argued that it was still incorrect? After all, even Pi = 3.14 isn't entirely accurate.



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02 Feb 2013, 5:52 pm

^ Meh, guess I just expected better from the Abrahamic God, the way he's sold in the book as all-knowing and shizz. Given how bad the Hebrews were at maths, it would've been brilliant proof of supernatural involvement if God gave them 3.14 instead of 3.



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02 Feb 2013, 5:56 pm

MCalavera wrote:
salad wrote:
i believe it because that IS the reason why he married Aisha. denial won't help you. if he really was a man of lust then why were almost all his wives OLD WIDOWS??


Because maybe he was into cougars? I don't know. But surely this doesn't preclude the fact that he still got married to a very young girl. So I'm not sure how this goes in your favor.

Quote:
Muhammad PBUH was 25 and in the prime of his youth, the most handsome man in arabia, and the strongest, yet you know who he chose as his wife?? Khadija, a twice widowed woman who was 40, 15 years older than him, even though all the most beautiful and young virgin women could have married him, but instead he chose khadja and married only her until she died.


Well, maybe he wasn't attracted much to women his age. They either had to be significantly older or way younger, I guess.

How do you know he was the most handsome man in Arabia by the way? You sure have a blind love towards that guy, do you?

Quote:
infact he even said the only woman he married out of love was khadija (he loved his other wives but he never married them out of love). that pretty much demolishes the muhammad married for lust bandwagon. he only remarried after khadija died, but before that the only woman he loved was khadija and he remained faithful towards her until she died. coincidence?? i don't think so. why do you think Aisha was so jealous of khadija. that leads to my second my point. why was aisha jealous?? it was because he loved khadija more than her. in other words, she loved Muhammad PBUH so much that she was angry that there was someone that he loved more than her. she used to ALWAYS ask him who he loved the most and she would be delighted whenever he said aisha. she even bragged about it to the other wives. so much for aisha not wanting to marry him. it seems more like it was an honor for her to marry him.


He may have loved Khadija the most, but you still haven't demonstrated that he didn't have lust for her Aisha.

Also, it doesn't really serve your position well to just assume that words are enough to justify one's actions. He may have said that Khadija was the only one he married out of love, but why then did he actually have to get married to Aisha if there was no love involved? He could've easily just adopted her as a child, and that's that.


his own enemies used to praise him for his beauty and handsome charm, look it up. there were even people who used to convert to islam because of his looks which I'm not making up. Abdullah ibn Salam converted to Islam simply by looking at the Prophet he felt that he was a prophet. It was said that his face used to shine like the moon when he smiled, by both his companions and enemies. the fact that his own enemies praised him for his dashing good looks obviously means he was handsome. people when they would enter a room knew that he was a prophet simply by his shining face. before you call bull on that go look it up and see for yourself.

besides why would he want to adopt her when she had a father.



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02 Feb 2013, 5:59 pm

salad wrote:
there were even people who used to convert to islam because of his looks which I'm not making up.


You might not be making it up, but I suspect someone did originally.