Teacher informs students of evolution lies in textbooks

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Errors in the textbooks were raised by an ID creationist named Wells a few years ago in the book "Icons of Evolution". That's usually what they are talking about.

http://www.amazon.com/Icons-Evolution-S ... +evolution

Here is the counter argument:

http://ncse.com/creationism/analysis/icons-evolution

C-PAC is going on again, and surprise surprise, a big emphasis is again on government getting out of the education business to be left to parents. Imagine if this were to ever happen, and imagine the collective IQ of the American public getting even lower with the teaching of such drivel as creationism, as well as the Neo-Confederate version slavery and the Civil War, etc. The government having control of school curriculums is almost certainly the best thing that ever happened to school kids.

I did a survey of whether or not creationists want educated, intelligent children. My survey method is direct observation. The majority of "believers" that I have observed seem to have the IQ of sand and want their children to believe exactly what they believe. The majority of believers I have had direct experience with would not even be able or willing to have the discussion we are having in this forum. They view the mere act of questioning what they believe as being an assault on what they believe. They have no knowledge of my beliefs or non beliefs beyond the fact that it is different from their beliefs. And they do not care to know anything about what I believe. They have no interest in, nor respect for anything in what I can only term the "spiritual realm" beyond their own spiritual interests. People in my direct experience who are believers would just as soon anyone who does not share their beliefs be exiled or executed. They view the mere idea of not believing in God as being un American, immoral, obscene and dangerous. Ignoring the fact that the great majority of people in prison do believe in God. They are unwilling to accept the fact that people do bad things whether they believe in God or not.

I never looked at being taught evolution as an indoctrination because I do not believe this physical form that is called my "body," whatever its origin, identifies or defines my existence. Maybe I am just a freak but I believe humanity is nothing more than consciousness, and consciousness has no form to be touched. Maybe consciousness is divinity and humanity has it all distorted. But I live in my own reality, unashamed to be "out of touch"

So now I have meandered so far off thread that I have spun into yarn. (pun intended) Agree to disagree on all levels.

Yes, in some cases, and in others they are far too insecure or whatever to risk having their comfort zones disturbed. One of my closest friends (guardedly so) from many years ago is no longer able to have any kind of conversation with me since my willingness and even a desire to hold all things open for continued review is beyond his comprehension.


We agree.

This information is out there and if the subject interests you then you can take your interest further. We had this discussion last year or the year before and your views have not changed. You seem to believe that if you don't learn about the subject it frees you to believe anything.

There isn't much other people can do with that.

It grieves me at least a little that you mis-perceive me so badly!

"Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events and small minds discuss people." --Eleanor Roosevelt

Lee, the issue is that evolution won the discussion decades ago. The frustrating thing for those of us "in the know" is that those with a religious axe to grind blind themselves to this fact either through ignorance of the facts or by deliberately trying to distort the facts. The issue is identical to a group of people still trying to argue the Sun revolves around the Earth and trying to push for the "controversy" to be included in science classes. There IS NO CONTROVERSY. There is no (serious) debate. Creationism lost the argument many years ago whether religionists chose to accept that fact or not.

I keep hearing the same rubbish arguments from creationist / ID proponents and ALL of those arguments are incorrect or deliberately misleading or contradict known facts. Evolution is here to stay. It is a fact. Why don't you simply LEARN about science and about evolution instead of requoting rubbish. Half the time you don't reply to the posts people have made because the science goes over your head and for the rest you all but say "god works in mysterious ways, who are we to question him".

Sorry, but you are high on opinion but low on knowledge. Why not just learn about the subject?

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS

Well said TallyMan! And Lee, I recall we had some interaction on this subject a couple of years ago or so. You haven't learned anything more about this subject since then? I have. Even back in Darwin's day people all over the world slapped their palms to their foreheads and said "duh, of course, how obvious, why didn't I see it first?"But now with genetic studies and with more and more transitional fossils being found all the time more and more faster and faster, well, for anyone to doubt that evolution happens is to show incredible ignorance of demonstrable reality. Please do just a little research before spouting nonsense. Everything in science is open to revision, including evolution, but evolution is just as much an observed testable fact of nature as gravity is.

There was no doubt that evolution is a fact many decades ago and since then the facts supporting evolution just keeps piling in. There is a huge amount of data still to analyse regarding DNA in (all) organisms and we are only at the tip of the iceberg at the moment. Anyway, I found this research in 2006 fascinating; I've mentioned it on here before but it is worth repeating:
Retrovirus DNA has been found embedded in the DNA of all organisms; such viruses have the habit of copying and pasting bits of DNA between themselves and other organisms. These genetic modifications can end up being passed on down the generations. Sometimes these modifications are found to beneficial. In the case discovered in 2006 it was found that a particular retrovirus was important in the evolution of ruminants and that sheep simply would not exist without this bit of DNA passed on from a retrovirus during the course of evolution. The same protein that helps viruses to attach to host cells is used by mammals to help fix the embryo to the uterus.

http://www.economist.com/node/7905388

Similar bits of retrovirus DNA were important during the evolution of other mammals (including humans) and research into the function of bits of DNA continues. Humans have a similar bit of DNA from a virus called HERV-W that is associated with embryos fixing in the womb. In short one of our "ancestors" is a virus, and it has made a small but vital contribution to human DNA. Without that viral contribution, humans would not exist.

The evolution of our DNA and the vast amount of baggage it contains from our evolutionary past is gradually being unveiled. This is an exciting time in evolutionary studies.

Yeah, I always thought that retrovirus insertions in the same place in humans and chimp DNA (and other shared damage) was a great bit of easily cited evidence. But creationists never cared.

Yes, it goes over the head of creationists.

It is interesting that some of this "shared damage" turns out to be beneficial to the organism and gets passed on down the evolutionary line. Without bits of virus DNA that organisms have picked up over millions of years, the organisms living today simply wouldn't exist. Humans (and all other organisms) have been through a virus "chop shop" many times and got bits and pieces bolted on from lots of other organisms, including viruses themselves.

Another of the really fascinating aspects of this shared genome is the role that mitochondria play within all living organisms, from plants to animals, these tiny primitive organisms (with their own DNA) live in most cells (plant or animal) by the thousands. This is an example of one of the earliest forms of symbiosis between different organisms in evolutionary history. Today, most life on the planet is dependent on collaboration with these tiny organisms. We (all life) give them a home within our cells and they help to metabolise glucose into ATP - the energy source used by all organisms. Mitochondria could be viewed as the most successful organisms on the planet and they are certainly one of the oldest and most primitive - thought to have evolved between 1.7 to 2 billion years ago.

I like human chromosome 2 as genetic evidence of recent common ancestry with our great ape cousins. The corresponding chromosomes have been found in our ape cousins that are fused together in humans. Again though, over the heads of creationists and they don't care. They would rather wallow in their ignorance and try to legislate reality to make everybody else's children as misinformed and unable to reason critically as their own kids.

It's so ironic too that they do this in the name of academic freedom. It is not academic freedom to propose giving equal time to ideas that do not have equal amounts of evidence. Evolution? All the evidence found so far supports it and nothing yet found falsifies it (although it is falsifiable: find us a fossil rabbit in pre-Cambrian rock layers and evolution would have some 'splainin' to do). Young Earth Creationism? No evidence yet found supports it and much has been found that falsifies it. So tell me again why Young Earth Creationism deserves equal time in a science classroom or textbook? I can see teaching it as part of a sociology or psychology class, or on the Letterman show as stupid human tricks, but it ain't science.

I consider myself fairly well informed about evolutionary biology, but I hadn't heard of this. Thanks! What a cool bit of information.

Not the discussion of the issue I have raised in this thread!

Then you might want to clarify that because you seem to be taking in circles and going nowhere fast.

@leejosepho
i just reread your original post in this thread where you say:

It would NOT be honest to declare the battle a religious one because evolution is NOT a religion. Is that your point, that you think evolution is just as much a religion as creationism and neither is necessary or helpful in actual science? IF so, it shows you do not understand the difference between science and religion. There IS a difference. It also shows you are grossly ignorant about how helpful our understanding of evolution has been to humanity, and the more we learn about its mechanisms the greater the potential to help us in terms of fighting disease, famine and other problems. You ARE right about creationism being useless though, so why are you defending it?

It sounds like you and many of the students in your county have been brainwashed by lies and misinformation about evolution by sources such as Kent Hovind and his ilk. It has been my experience from more than forty years debating creationists on this subject that nearly all the people who deny or question the fact evolution happens are very very VERY badly misinformed about it. LEE, YOU HAVE BEEN LIED TO ABOUT THIS SUBJECT! The lies about evolution are not in the textbooks; they are in the videos and books by Kent Hovind and his type.