why are feminist obsessed with Nice guys(TM)

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What you DON'T see, however, is moderate, establishment Democrats working to shut up extreme leftist factions of their party.

You're probably right. But that doesn't change the fact that they get the most attention and dominate the narrative. What disturbs me is that more sensible moderates don't seem to actively counter it, with some posts on WP being a striking exception rather than the rule.

Feminism is only going to succeed where feminists are unified. Division is almost always catastrophic to a cause.

There is attention, and there is attention. Sure that westborough protestant whatever nuts, gets lots of attention for their extreme oppinions. But there is "I never thought of it that way." attention and "WTF - I mean WTF? O_o *rofl*" attention.

Sorry, but I dont agree on that. What you call division is for me the contrary of militarism. What freedom is there, if people are not allowed to mention their opinions, anyway if it may not opt well with someone elses opinion. I dont need a movement to free me from an conservative gender thinking that was forced on everyone of us, so that someone else can force on us their gender thinking. ^^ As well that there is no absolute need to fear it. So some people have extreme thinking. Luckily we live in democracy, which means the majority must agree on something, and not in an "Yellography", so that the one yelling the most get its way. ^^ Some rare extremist are not an devision to the cause. In eruope you have as well in almost every country some extreme rightwing conservative party. But they are no division or an catastrophe to conservative people, because conservative people are simply conservative people and extreme rightwing conservative people are rightwing conservative people. Outside of that forum and the ones, always creating that kind of threads, I never met someone, mixing those two totally different kind of oppinions with each other.

Its as if I´d post a video of some strange US "self founded religion" leader, having 25 wifes and 95 kids and opinions from the millenium before jesus was born, and start referring about "todays global patriarchism". ^^

So…if believing that we should make every effort to give women equal political and legal status on par with men and if believing that we should eliminate (within reason) barriers to success for women in the workplace makes me a male feminist, then sign me up.

b.s,alot of guys who get laid,are married,have a gf, are
against feminist.there are women against feminist.
feminist and their hardcore leftist allies think
only bitter,cranky single guys hate them,which
is not true.You feminist and hardcore leftist are losing.
ok.

You feminist and hardcore leftist are losing.
ok.

I do not see how it would be considered feminist to want equal rights for all.

There really shouldn't be men's rights or woman's rights,but just human rights.

The problem is that the loudest voices are, as often is the case everywhere, the ones that aren't about equality in any reasonable sense. That's the issue I have with Feminism™ . It's not about equality at all. That's why this post caught my attention. Feminists™ would have put it this way:
"Oh, yes. I see that tons of woman always on my way to work, protesting before the parlament: "We dont want to be treated as equal humans! We dont want the same rights! We want MORE rights! We think we are of more worth and deserve to be treated with greater respect!" It's a viewpoint that holds that ALL men are scum and inferior. And where this is NOT the case, it IS the case that they demand men step aside and make every accommodation that they demand.

And this simply isn't the way the world works. At least not in the "man's world." If I got to demand every accommodation for my job to make it a success, I'd still be a public school teacher right now. Nobody in an entry level job gets his own personal assistant to run around fixing his mistakes to guarantee a promotion. Even if you have something on a management or executive level, you don't get a free pass from making mistakes and facing consequences. I'm self-employed, which basically means I'm a CEO. Just because I'm the CEO doesn't mean I've got clients breaking down the door to procure my services. I'm not really doing all that well at the moment, and if I'm going to grow my business, *I* have to take responsibility for things like finances and marketing. Talk about a glass ceiling! Hint: it only exists if YOU put it there. If there's no more upwards mobility for you in the company where you work, give yourself a promotion by seeking the job you want elsewhere, and don't stop looking for it until you get it.

Feminists™ aren't interested in ordinary upwards mobility. They see status as imposed by men for men's interests alone, women need not apply. It's "I'm a woman, and my kind have been oppressed for millennia. I'm ENTITLED to the top jobs, and YOU (men) are going to do all the work to put me there." Feminists™ would have a point if they stopped at equality. It's tit-for-tat dominance over men and demanding that men accommodate them along the way that I have the most trouble supporting.

And just to be clear, I'm referring to Feminists™ as a radical, extreme movement, what some may call "Feminazi." I'm not assuming that ALL feminists are like this, but it doesn't seem to me that feminists really have much of a voice in the media as Feminist™ radicals do. Saying all feminists are Feminists™ is like saying all nice guys are Nice Guys™. The problem is somehow we tend to be more attracted to the attention-getters, all the crazies whose views somehow get representation disproportionate to how many people actually buy into that ideology.

have any of the female feminists involved in this conversation said ANY of these problematic things that you mentioned here?

no.

and why is that?

because the kind of extreme feminists with the "loudest" voices you guys are talking about (the handful that have been mentioned that exist) are the only ones you guys here seem to pay attention to, the only sort of blogs you go looking for to quote in here, the only sort of youtube videos you link in these threads are about/made by the horrible all-too-common (apparently) FEMINAZI (god how i hate this f***ing word).

there are lots of feminists on this thread with what i would call pretty reasonable voices and opinions. and why is that?--because we actually represent THE LARGE MAJORITY of feminists--reasonable people who want to be treated like human beings. but you don't hear us. you only hear skrieking man-haters. whatev.

I've never actually met a 'shrieking man hater,' nor do I hang out online where they congregate (assuming that there are enough of them to congregate anywhere), so, no.

Found this interesting...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLemX9QtUa4[/youtube]