Israel

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If the US really wanted to resolve the conflict, they could do it right now..

They never had any land they were always ruled by someone, whether it was the Ottomans, Byzantium, Romans, British. The Fatimids and Ayyubids were not Palestinians either. This was the first time they had an opportunity to have any land of their own and the squandered it.

The term Palestinian comes from the the British. In early 1940s they didn't fight under that banner. The Bedouin don't say they are Palsitinian, and they are the ones that have lived in the desert for centuries.

The Palestinians had an area bigger than Lebanon, with 3/4 of people in it, and less diverse. They were also free to stay in Israel, until the Arab nations attacked.

Petty nationalism like this just prolongs conflict. There is a reason why Nasserism and Baathim failed, there is no genuine unity. If you were interested in solving the conflict you would accept the reality. Israel is not going away, and neither is Palestine.

Lets put it this way, Palestinians would love to turn back to clock to have a deal even roughly approaching what was on offer back then. Why not, when it was much more land and security? You would be nuts not to take an opportunity like that if you had in now. The situation now is much worse, in terms of what is realistic. So it is obvious they have squandered many opportunities, whatever you think of the Isrealis.

One of the myths is it has to do with overall territory, and population. They had more than enough land. The surrounding Arab nation don't care about the Palestinians either. They are not treated better in those countries, they are second class citizens. Arab Isrealis are treated better.

It is about control of the holy land pure and simple, and always has been. I include the Israelis in this too. It is sad that most of bloodshed hasn't been becuase of necessity, but based on both believing they are better and more righteous.

I used to be very one sided like you, until I educated myself, and took a solid dose of pragmatism. Those that teach their children to carry on this behaviour aren't freedom fighters, they are sick. It is inter-generational neurosis.

I live in the real world, a country that is 70 years old isn't goign way whatever you think of it. I hope there is a peaceful solution. Reinforcing the victim mentality and righteousness isn't actually helping shorten the conflict.

Gaza is a s**t hole for a reason, much worse than the West Bank. Israel bares some of the blame for supporting Hamas in the early days. However it is not all down to one side, to say that would ignore the contrasting situation in the West Bank.

I'm against settlements, but the withdrawal of settlement in Gaza spurred almost immediate attack so it is hard to say it was a better outcome. As soon as Hams were voted in they rounded up all the Fatah candidates took them to high building and pushed them off.

10 years of Hamas in Gaza have made it worse for the people living there than it has ever been since the history of the conflict. Seriously they have spent want resources they have on activities which have done nothing but made they people worse off an more miserable. How is that a solution?

Also, why focus just on this conflict? What about all the other conflicts in the middle east that have been going on for 13 centuries since the battle of Karbala. Are you going to blame all that on the west? Sectarian tensions have to exist to be stirred up, this is really an extension of that. Even if you only count modern conflict in the region, the casualties are smaller then others simple due to the population in the area concerned. How much attention have to played to other sectarian conflict in the wider middle east, compared to this? I presume to care about those victims too?

Can you explain what motivates non-Islamic terrorists (i.e., Israelis)?

Because so far, the question of Israeli terrorism is something no one in this thread seems to want to address. Israel has committed countless acts of terrorism since the 1950's. And when I say terrorism, I don't mean internationally sanctioned acts of warfare, I mean actual terrorism like the infamous Lavon Affair. They're the most powerful and dangerous terrorist organization to ever exist.

We sort of agree, but maybe not in the same way.

The whole situation needs to be de-internationalised.

The problem with he US is it has become way too invested in the situation there. These foreign envoys and power broker far from helping have been the enablers of inaction.

It is funny the Isrealis rarely meet their adversary without the US, and same is true for the Palestinian side. It is like two siblings squabbling through a bad parent.

What they need to do is take responsibility for the problem and own it. Only the two parties can make a solution. Not the international community.

The best way to get them to take it seriously is to stop enabling them and remove the envoys. Then reward them for meeting, and have consequences for not.

No conflict like this is solved without incentive. There has to be an incentive for the leaders.

The US doesn't veto a resolution that fits with the international consensus, hence going back to the 1967 borders with some kind of answer to the right of return, and hey presto, conflict solved. The US needs to force it, otherwise it won't happen. But of course it never will anyway. Making out that Israel and Palestine are like even players is beyond outrageous.

There is no chance of resolving the conflict. Nazi Germany had to go, Soviet Russia had to go, apartheid South Africa had to go, now Zionazi Israel has to go. The concept of Zionism is evil and was always going to be at the expense of the native population. The Palestinians and all of the Arab states have agreed to resolve the conflict since the late 70's, but the US has blocked it on Israel's behalf. Israel has had enough time and has no interest in peace. Even Israeli Jews like Miko Peled have this view.

There are problems arising now for Israeli Arabs, and they have done reasonably OK as long as they don't have Jordanian passports, but gradually it will get worse of them. The tokenism from Israel means nothing. It calls itself the "Jewish state" for gawds sake.

I don't care what you used to be like, I've heard this a million times. You haven't educated yourself in the slightest. It can still be called Israel or Palestine. Germany is still called Germany and South Africa is still called South Africa. The concept of Zionism needs to go.

If you had "educated" yourself, you'd realise that Israel didn't withdraw from Gaza in reality, and i'm not going to repeat myself, so read my earlier postings on the subject. They still control Gaza. Hamas are crazy, but that's what you create after 60 years of horror.

That's because Israel has been punishing the people of Gaza more than ever since they made the wrong choice at the election.

Sure, i'm worried about the West's destruction of Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon and now Yemen. I can't control what those countries do to each other, but I can try and stop the West, as that's where I am.

It is laughable to think the UN has any role to play. Both sides have violated UN resolutions. Adding more resolutions hasn't helped so far.

Why limit to the 1967 plan? What if they could come up with something better or more for both of them? Everything needs to be on the table. We aren't in 1967 anymore.

Who cares about an international plan? It isn't our plan. The two sides need to do what is best for each other.

The only role the UN could play is after the have a formal solution, and they invite them to play some role in shared areas, which would be like to be in a number of places.

Israel is not comparable to Nazi Germany. Israel does allow Arabs(and muslims) to reside within its borders and does not actively exclude or segregate them from public institutions.

But what infuriates me about this whole thing is that when Israel is attacked without provocation, and the Israeli's retaliate, THEY are the one who's made to look like the bad guy!

The original inhabitants of this land no longer exist as a distinct people. The first inhabitants were NOT Bedouin Arabs! Nor where they Jews for that matter. Palestine comes from Phillistine, an Indo-Aryan people who lived in what is now Southern Israel. I say the 2 state solution is the best possible outcome. And in particular, Palestine should be located in the Sinai peninsula and include Gaza(which was never part of the historic Israel).

If it wasn't for the UN, Israel wouldn't be a legal state. The US had vetoed every single resolution which the rest of the world has voted in favor for. I won't keep repeating myself, it's up to you to truly educate yourself. The resolutions have gradually swayed more into Israel's favor, but they still reject them, because they have no interest in peace and why should they? The US supports them and pours millions a day in to support them.

JohnPowell,0_equals_true,Mukherjee80,Barchan

This is what these posters would do to with the Jews in Israel.The Einsatzgruppen were notorious mobile killing units that went in behind the German army as it advanced eastwards through Eastern Europe en route to the Soviet territories and whose principal task was the extermination of the Jews, Gypsies, Polish intelligentsia, Communists, suspected partisans and POWs.

I am educated. The UN cannot make peace in the Middle East. Only the two parties can. This is common sense.

The international community are enabling not helping. If they want to help they need to create the incentives for resolution.

The only national interest that makes sense for any country is resolution of the conflict. That means being realistic.

John I understand you sentiments but you are too one sided and simplistic about this issue. It is easy to see the Palestinians as down trodden. That is true, the Isrealis are not whiter than white, however you can't ignore the failing of the Palestinian leadership too.

Israel is very Hawkish now, but, there have been period where they were more liberal. Palestinians when through period where they had better quality of life. Also minority Palestinians groups (Christians, etc) have mostly fled the region becuase there isn't the solidarity that it supposed to be there.

Israel is 20% Arab and this is growing. There standard of life is better than the Palestinians, and many surrounding countries. They participate in the Knesset.

The Palestinians vote once for dictatorship, or they have had the same basic leadership who have failed them since the 60s.

I am educated. The UN cannot make peace in the Middle East. Only the two parties can. This is common sense.

The international community are enabling not helping. If they want to help they need to create the incentives for resolution.

The only national interest that makes sense for any country is resolution of the conflict. That means being realistic.

John I understand you sentiments but you are too one sided and simplistic about this issue. It is easy to see the Palestinians as down trodden. That is true, the Isrealis are not whiter than white, however you can't ignore the failing of the Palestinian leadership too.

Israel is very Hawkish now, but, there have been period where they were more liberal. Palestinians when through period where they had better quality of life. Also minority Palestinians groups (Christians, etc) have mostly fled the region becuase there isn't the solidarity that it supposed to be there.

Israel is 20% Arab and this is growing. There standard of life is better than the Palestinians, and many surrounding countries. They participate in the Knesset.

The Palestinians vote once for dictatorship, or they have had the same basic leadership who have failed them since the 60s.

I didn't say the UN could, but that is because of the veto powers. Israel need to be stopped by force, but I imagine people are too frightened as they say they will nuke anyone who tries.

You and your fellow anti semites would do the same thing the Nazis did to the Israelis again if there were not protected by the West and the United States. Images and the facts and do tell the truth. All of you are closeted Nazis.