"It's not a Muslim ban! It's working out very nicely!"

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03 Feb 2017, 7:14 am

If we really want to finally end all oppression, then we will have to include the oppression of bigots. Fortunately, as bigotry is a tool of oppression, there will be no bigotry at that point. Rest easy, Ezra, one day there will be no more bigotry against bigots.

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EzraS
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03 Feb 2017, 7:39 am

jrjones9933 wrote:

The issue is wholesale labeling in a prejudicial fashion to discredit those one is opposed to. I've been guilty of this myself using such labels as "kooks" and now I attempt to refrain from the practice. Put plainer, they're not all bigots because someone labels them as such to discredit and denigrate them.

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03 Feb 2017, 7:59 am

EzraS wrote:

That labeling, euphemistically referred to as an assertion, is made because of an intolerant view toward those who hold different opinions from yourselves, which is the definition of bigotry.

I do not believe I need to be "tolerant" of actual bigots. I don't think true bigotry is "just another viewpoint".

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03 Feb 2017, 8:30 am

EzraS wrote:

jrjones9933 wrote:

That goes beyond true into the realm of profound. Use your powers for good more often.

We will not put America back together, or put WP back together, if we keep labeling each other. It's unending, tiring, and while each step makes sense; pull back and look at the big picture, and be like WHAT?

I would prefer this type of exchange be the norm, and the hurling of hyperbolic hypotheses be the exception.

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03 Feb 2017, 3:12 pm

EzraS wrote:

That labeling, euphemistically referred to as an assertion, is made because of an intolerant view toward those who hold different opinions from yourselves, which is the definition of bigotry.

So if one doesn't simply tolerate bigotry then they are a bigot? I am not trying to be sarcastic or anything, but I've pondered this a couple times myself...as the dictionary definition does confirm its intolerance of different 'beliefs', kind of a catch 22 there.

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Last edited by Sweetleaf on 03 Feb 2017, 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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03 Feb 2017, 3:19 pm

EzraS wrote:

jrjones9933 wrote:

I think everyone has been guilty of that at one time or another. And you're right simply trying to discredit the opposition isn't a very good approach, if you're really trying to get through to them.

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03 Feb 2017, 3:24 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

EzraS wrote:

That labeling, euphemistically referred to as an assertion, is made because of an intolerant view toward those who hold different opinions from yourselves, which is the definition of bigotry.

That's the part I found profound. I was thinking of something similar, but of course I chose a more convoluted way to say it. Once both sides buy in to labeling and generalizing, it goes downhill forever. If enough people on both sides stop, then a few trolls can keep trolling without real harm; we just have to get below that critical mass where no one listens to anyone anymore.

I see WP as a microcosm of the broader political dialogue. Maybe if we can fix this, we can offer a solution to the wider world.

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03 Feb 2017, 3:35 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

EzraS wrote:

That labeling, euphemistically referred to as an assertion, is made because of an intolerant view toward those who hold different opinions from yourselves, which is the definition of bigotry.

hmm maybe if people didn't take terms to be so 'loaded'...for instance everyone has probably been guilty of bigotry or bigoted thoughts, the important thing is what you do with those. However it seems a lot of people see it more as if you accuse someone of bigotry then you're also saying you've never been guilty of it in your life and thus are better than that person in every way. Perhaps if we could all admit we generalize and sterotype and think bad things about other people...it would be easier to address what to do with that sort of thinking to avoid it coming out in harmful ways.

Lol not sure if that makes sense, sort of hard to put my exact thoughts on this in words...lol and maybe its my idealism showing again. I kind of picture in movies when an intolerant sort of character learns something that makes them learn to be more tolerant and lets go of their hate or anger or whatever. But characters like that never get there by someone pounding it into them that they are 'wrong'. Like American History X is sort of an example, because the main character after sort of making friends with a black guy in prison starts to question his neo-nazi views and in the end rejects them.

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03 Feb 2017, 5:36 pm

marshall wrote:

EzraS wrote:

That labeling, euphemistically referred to as an assertion, is made because of an intolerant view toward those who hold different opinions from yourselves, which is the definition of bigotry.

I do not believe I need to be "tolerant" of actual bigots. I don't think true bigotry is "just another viewpoint".

Agreed. Tolerance isn't about tolerating intolerance.

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03 Feb 2017, 7:18 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

EzraS wrote:

That labeling, euphemistically referred to as an assertion, is made because of an intolerant view toward those who hold different opinions from yourselves, which is the definition of bigotry.

I'm talking about labeling virtually every Trump supporter as a bigot along with a slew of made up pejoratives usually ending in "phobe". I agree, it is kind of a catch 22.

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03 Feb 2017, 7:50 pm

Part of stopping name calling is not bawling about rare instances when it actually happens. Alluding to them when they aren't actually happening probably just perpetuates the problem.

If it's a threat to board hygiene, just report it. Or, keep at this until it gets boring.

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03 Feb 2017, 8:14 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:

I'm talking about an agenda that takes place throughout the entire world. There are people who are closet Trump supporters because they don't want to be persecuted. There's something very fundamentally wrong with that, considering who the persecution stems from. It appears that the self described good guys aren't such good guys after all.

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03 Feb 2017, 8:16 pm

EzraS wrote:

I'm talking about an agenda that takes place throughout the entire world. There are people who are closet Trump supporters because they don't want to be persecuted.

Can you cite a reference for that, or is just what's on your mind?

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03 Feb 2017, 8:27 pm

androbot01 wrote:

EzraS wrote:

I'm talking about an agenda that takes place throughout the entire world. There are people who are closet Trump supporters because they don't want to be persecuted.

Can you cite a reference for that, or is just what's on your mind?

Well, this is what happened when I typed in the word "closet". The fact that the rest was filled out for me ahead of time, is a pretty good indicator that it's an actual large scale phenomenon.

And the results:

https://www.google.com/#q=closet+trump+supporters

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03 Feb 2017, 8:32 pm

EzraS wrote:

jrjones9933 wrote:

Is someone doing it to you, right now? That's my point. Let's talk about the way Trump supporters have been done wrong. You cheapen their pain when you throw it out too often.

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jrjones9933
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03 Feb 2017, 8:35 pm

EzraS wrote:

androbot01 wrote:

EzraS wrote:

I'm talking about an agenda that takes place throughout the entire world. There are people who are closet Trump supporters because they don't want to be persecuted.

Can you cite a reference for that, or is just what's on your mind?

Well, this is what happened when I typed in the word "closet". The fact that the rest was filled out for me ahead of time, is a pretty good indicator that it's an actual large scale phenomenon.

And the results:

https://www.google.com/#q=closet+trump+supporters

Can we dial it back a bit? How young are you again? Who pointed out that Google was a barometer for the worst instincts of the English speaking world? Anti racism activists, that's f*****g who.

Edit: If you have any will or knowledge of how to trace the history of the net, you will see that they also included the slurs implied against white people in the critique soon, although not immediately. That's when I noticed the real prejudice against people like my Dad; I contend that he complains about the wrong stuff, but I only have research to back me up, not Fox News. Also, he's getting so old that I can't bear to push an argument anymore.

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