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Mikah
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16 Sep 2020, 8:29 pm

Is it that time of year again XFilesGeek? Time for our annual argument?


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16 Sep 2020, 8:41 pm

I'm gonna go out on a limb with a no to that one. :lol:

You are not a woman as far as I know so this is moot.


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16 Sep 2020, 8:42 pm

magz wrote:
So, do you think harsh punishments are necessary to deter people from crime?


I heard that in countries that chop your hand off if you steal, you can leave your wallet out in the open in the town square, come back 2 hours later, and it will still be there because no one wants to risk losing their hand. Do that in the US and it will be gone in seconds. I'm not saying I support it but it shows harsh punishments are an effective deterrent. If killing some murderers saves millions of innocent lives, I'd say it would make the world a better place. Ideally I'd like to see no one punished and no crimes committed but that's just not realistic.



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16 Sep 2020, 8:50 pm

Fnord wrote:
emotrtkey wrote:
Fnord wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me that there are still some men who believe that they have the privilege of dictating what women can do with their own bodies.  It's as if those men perceive women as property, and not as human beings.
It never ceases to amaze me that there are some women who believe that they have the privilege of dictating whether children should be allowed to live. It's as if those women perceive their children as their property, and not as human beings.
a. A woman owns her body.

b. A fetus is part of a woman's body until birth.

: : A woman owns the fetus inside her body until birth.


Definition of slavery - "The condition in which one person is owned as property by another and is under the owner's control" (American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition)

I think slavery should be abolished.



magz
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17 Sep 2020, 12:10 am

emotrtkey wrote:
magz wrote:
So, do you think harsh punishments are necessary to deter people from crime?
I heard that in countries that chop your hand off if you steal, you can leave your wallet out in the open in the town square, come back 2 hours later, and it will still be there because no one wants to risk losing their hand. Do that in the US and it will be gone in seconds. I'm not saying I support it but it shows harsh punishments are an effective deterrent. If killing some murderers saves millions of innocent lives, I'd say it would make the world a better place. Ideally I'd like to see no one punished and no crimes committed but that's just not realistic.

I heard that story too, when I was a child, but without any particular example of such country.
I heard a story of leaving your purse in a city park and coming back for it. In modern Finland. No hand chopping involved at all.

Where I live, crime is low enough that when I absent-mindedly leave my backpack with all my valuables in local city park, I find it exactly where I left it half an hour later. When my daughter left her scooter outside, it was there the next day. When she forgot to take her new Barbie doll from kindergarten changing room, it was there several days later.
In the nineties, crime was a very serious issue here. Now, we're one of the safest countries in the region. Punishments for crimes did not change significantly during this time.
What changed: Economic situation improved dramatically since the nineties and a lot of social issues like homelessness and drug abuse are systematically adressed.


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17 Sep 2020, 4:03 am

emotrtkey wrote:
magz wrote:
So, do you think harsh punishments are necessary to deter people from crime?


I heard that in countries that chop your hand off if you steal, you can leave your wallet out in the open in the town square, come back 2 hours later, and it will still be there because no one wants to risk losing their hand. Do that in the US and it will be gone in seconds. I'm not saying I support it but it shows harsh punishments are an effective deterrent. If killing some murderers saves millions of innocent lives, I'd say it would make the world a better place. Ideally I'd like to see no one punished and no crimes committed but that's just not realistic.

I see your point,but like I said before,if your going to be Catholic you have to be anti-death penalty,per the Pope


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Mikah
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17 Sep 2020, 5:59 am

cberg wrote:
I'm gonna go out on a limb with a no to that one. :lol:

You are not a woman as far as I know so this is moot.


Ah that old canard. I suppose drug users should be the only ones with a say in drug legislation... and thieves the only ones who can discuss property laws...


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17 Sep 2020, 8:25 am

emotrtkey wrote:
Fnord wrote:
emotrtkey wrote:
Fnord wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me that there are still some men who believe that they have the privilege of dictating what women can do with their own bodies.  It's as if those men perceive women as property, and not as human beings.
It never ceases to amaze me that there are some women who believe that they have the privilege of dictating whether children should be allowed to live. It's as if those women perceive their children as their property, and not as human beings.
a. A woman owns her body.

b. A fetus is part of a woman's body until birth.

: : A woman owns the fetus inside her body until birth.
Definition of slavery - "The condition in which one person is owned as property by another and is under the owner's control" (American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition).

I think slavery should be abolished.
You cannot refute the logic, so you tried to change the subject.  At least you did not try to refute logic with superstitious nonsense -- I'll give you that much credit.  Now try this one:

a. A woman owns her body.

b. A fetus is part of a woman's body until birth.

: : A woman owns the fetus inside her body until birth, because it is part of her body.

:lol:



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17 Sep 2020, 8:30 am

vermontsavant wrote:
emotrtkey wrote:
magz wrote:
So, do you think harsh punishments are necessary to deter people from crime?
I heard that in countries that chop your hand off if you steal, you can leave your wallet out in the open in the town square, come back 2 hours later, and it will still be there because no one wants to risk losing their hand. Do that in the US and it will be gone in seconds. I'm not saying I support it but it shows harsh punishments are an effective deterrent. If killing some murderers saves millions of innocent lives, I'd say it would make the world a better place. Ideally I'd like to see no one punished and no crimes committed but that's just not realistic.
I see your point,but like I said before,if your going to be Catholic you have to be anti-death penalty,per the Pope
It is the hypocrisy of every religion to declare "Life is Sacred" and still support the death penalty.



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17 Sep 2020, 8:35 am

Fnord wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
emotrtkey wrote:
magz wrote:
So, do you think harsh punishments are necessary to deter people from crime?
I heard that in countries that chop your hand off if you steal, you can leave your wallet out in the open in the town square, come back 2 hours later, and it will still be there because no one wants to risk losing their hand. Do that in the US and it will be gone in seconds. I'm not saying I support it but it shows harsh punishments are an effective deterrent. If killing some murderers saves millions of innocent lives, I'd say it would make the world a better place. Ideally I'd like to see no one punished and no crimes committed but that's just not realistic.
I see your point,but like I said before,if your going to be Catholic you have to be anti-death penalty,per the Pope
It is the hypocrisy of every religion to declare "Life is Sacred" and still support the death penalty.

The pope is anti-death penalty,always has been.


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Fnord
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17 Sep 2020, 8:36 am

vermontsavant wrote:
Fnord wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
emotrtkey wrote:
magz wrote:
So, do you think harsh punishments are necessary to deter people from crime?
I heard that in countries that chop your hand off if you steal, you can leave your wallet out in the open in the town square, come back 2 hours later, and it will still be there because no one wants to risk losing their hand. Do that in the US and it will be gone in seconds. I'm not saying I support it but it shows harsh punishments are an effective deterrent. If killing some murderers saves millions of innocent lives, I'd say it would make the world a better place. Ideally I'd like to see no one punished and no crimes committed but that's just not realistic.
I see your point,but like I said before,if your going to be Catholic you have to be anti-death penalty,per the Pope
It is the hypocrisy of every religion to declare "Life is Sacred" and still support the death penalty.
The pope is anti-death penalty,always has been.
The Pope is not the Church.



goldfish21
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17 Sep 2020, 9:12 am

Back on topic:

Abort Roger Stone! :mrgreen:


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vermontsavant
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17 Sep 2020, 9:58 am

Fnord wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
Fnord wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
emotrtkey wrote:
magz wrote:
So, do you think harsh punishments are necessary to deter people from crime?
I heard that in countries that chop your hand off if you steal, you can leave your wallet out in the open in the town square, come back 2 hours later, and it will still be there because no one wants to risk losing their hand. Do that in the US and it will be gone in seconds. I'm not saying I support it but it shows harsh punishments are an effective deterrent. If killing some murderers saves millions of innocent lives, I'd say it would make the world a better place. Ideally I'd like to see no one punished and no crimes committed but that's just not realistic.
I see your point,but like I said before,if your going to be Catholic you have to be anti-death penalty,per the Pope
It is the hypocrisy of every religion to declare "Life is Sacred" and still support the death penalty.
The pope is anti-death penalty,always has been.
The Pope is not the Church.

The Pope controls the church.


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Fnord
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17 Sep 2020, 10:03 am

vermontsavant wrote:
Fnord wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
Fnord wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
emotrtkey wrote:
magz wrote:
So, do you think harsh punishments are necessary to deter people from crime?
I heard that in countries that chop your hand off if you steal, you can leave your wallet out in the open in the town square, come back 2 hours later, and it will still be there because no one wants to risk losing their hand. Do that in the US and it will be gone in seconds. I'm not saying I support it but it shows harsh punishments are an effective deterrent. If killing some murderers saves millions of innocent lives, I'd say it would make the world a better place. Ideally I'd like to see no one punished and no crimes committed but that's just not realistic.
I see your point,but like I said before,if your going to be Catholic you have to be anti-death penalty,per the Pope
It is the hypocrisy of every religion to declare "Life is Sacred" and still support the death penalty.
The pope is anti-death penalty,always has been.
The Pope is not the Church.
The Pope controls the church.
No ... the Pope is the leader of the church, but he does not control it.



magz
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17 Sep 2020, 10:12 am

Fnord wrote:
b. A fetus is part of a woman's body until birth.
This part is arguable.


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Fnord
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17 Sep 2020, 10:16 am

magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
b. A fetus is part of a woman's body until birth.
This part is arguable.
"The sky is blue" is arguable.  "Water is wet" is arguable.  Even "The Earth is round" is arguable.

Being arguable does not render a factual statement invalid.

I'll put it this way: If a fetus was detached and removed from its mother's body before 28 weeks of gestation, what would be it's chances of survival without artificial support?