Trump's various attempts to challenge election results

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Mona Pereth
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12 Dec 2020, 5:18 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
It’s Not Just Trump’s War on Democracy Anymore Republicans have gone far beyond merely humoring their losing leader.
Quote:
... while his allies have lost fifty-plus cases since the election, Trump has convinced millions of Americans to believe that the election was rigged against him—seventy-seven per cent of Republicans now say mass fraud occurred, according to a new Quinnipiac poll out Thursday—and enlisted virtually the entire national leadership of the Republican Party in his concerted attack on the legitimacy of the results.

...

Up on Capitol Hill, meanwhile, a hundred and six House Republicans filed an amicus brief of their own supporting the Texas lawsuit. Some of these same Trump supporters in Congress are also now considering objecting to the Electoral College results when they are presented to the House, on January 6th, in what is meant to be a purely pro-forma procedural move.

I thought they were supposed to be presented to the Senate. Be that as it may, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the Republicans in Congress try to screw up the January 6 formal count in one way or another.

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Quote:
Mitt Romney dismissed the idea as “madness,” but he remains a lonely public voice against Trump, as his fellow-Republicans either fall in line or remain inexcusably silent.

Of course it's madness, and maybe even outright seditious of the Congressional Republicans outright refuse to do their constitutionally mandated duty.

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Quote:
This has gone far beyond just humoring Trump for a few days.

In filing so many lawsuits and having so many courts across the country reject them, Trump has produced an unintended result: a resounding judicial affirmation of the integrity of our system. Trump appointees have rejected his cases; Obama appointees have rejected his cases. State courts have rejected them. The Supreme Court has, too.

On Monday, there will be another test, another chance to finally, belatedly, get it right. The Electoral College will meet, and it will give Joe Biden a victory, with three hundred and six electoral votes. Will that be enough to end this?

bolding=mine

Of course not.

If nothing else, the Republican Party has to prove to the Trump fanatics in Georgia that they are still trying -- as hard as they possibly can, and in every way even remotely imaginable -- to "stop the steal." Otherwise, the fanatics have threatened to boycott the Georgia Senate runoffs on January 5 and thereby risk losing Republican control of the Senate. So the madness is pretty much guaranteed to last at least until January 5.

The only question is whether it will continue on January 6.


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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 12 Dec 2020, 5:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.

goldfish21
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12 Dec 2020, 5:21 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Mona Pereth
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12 Dec 2020, 5:38 pm

Trump's lawsuits are still continuing....

Wisconsin Supreme Court Will Take Up Trump Lawsuit Appeal To Overturn Biden Win by Bill Chappell and Vanessa Romo, NPR, December 11, 2020:

Quote:
Hours after a Wisconsin lower court rejected another of President Trump's attempts to overturn his loss to President-elect Joe Biden on Friday, the state Supreme Court agreed to hear arguments in the case over the weekend.

The decision by the conservative-controlled court on Friday means Trump's case will skip over the Wisconsin Court of Appeals as the president pursues his quest to invalidate more than 221,000 ballots. That reversal could win him an additional 10 electoral votes, but Trump would still trail Biden, who would have 296. Biden currently has 306 electoral votes to Trump's 232.

...

The lower court's decision earlier Friday dismissed the Trump campaign's claims that election officials in two counties failed to follow state law regarding absentee ballots during Wisconsin's recount in the close race.


Another Trump suit is being heard over the weekend by the Georgia state supreme court, as I noted here.


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12 Dec 2020, 9:05 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Trump's lawsuits are still continuing....

Wisconsin Supreme Court Will Take Up Trump Lawsuit Appeal To Overturn Biden Win by Bill Chappell and Vanessa Romo, NPR, December 11, 2020:

Quote:
Hours after a Wisconsin lower court rejected another of President Trump's attempts to overturn his loss to President-elect Joe Biden on Friday, the state Supreme Court agreed to hear arguments in the case over the weekend.

The decision by the conservative-controlled court on Friday means Trump's case will skip over the Wisconsin Court of Appeals as the president pursues his quest to invalidate more than 221,000 ballots. That reversal could win him an additional 10 electoral votes, but Trump would still trail Biden, who would have 296. Biden currently has 306 electoral votes to Trump's 232.

...

The lower court's decision earlier Friday dismissed the Trump campaign's claims that election officials in two counties failed to follow state law regarding absentee ballots during Wisconsin's recount in the close race.


Another Trump suit is being heard over the weekend by the Georgia state supreme court, as I noted here.


He is still accepting donations from MAGAs to fund these.

Something else that needs to be investigated by the police

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexand ... 17503ced52

Again if he wasn't the POTUS he should be behind bars. I don't get how stupid/ignorant his supporters are?? they are giving up their future and their children's future to allow a billionaire to live the high life. If this isn't a cult I don't know what is.



Mona Pereth
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13 Dec 2020, 8:37 am

Wisconsin Supreme Court Judge Tells Trump Attorney His Phony Lawsuit ‘Smacks of Racism by Blake Montgomery, Dec. 12, 2020:

Quote:
A Wisconsin Supreme Court judge told an attorney for Donald Trump that the president’s suit to toss out more than 200,000 votes in the state “smacks of racism” as it targets the state’s largest, most diverse counties, which hold the highest numbers of Black voters.

...

Well, duh. That's true of pretty much all of Trump's lawsuits.


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13 Dec 2020, 11:37 am

Trump Allies Eye Long-Shot Election Reversal in Congress, Testing Pence

Quote:
a small group of his most loyal backers in Congress are plotting a final-stage challenge on the floor of the House of Representatives in early January to try to reverse Mr. Biden’s victory.

Constitutional scholars and even members of the president’s own party say the effort is all but certain to fail. But the looming battle on Jan. 6 is likely to culminate in a messy and deeply divisive spectacle that could thrust Vice President Mike Pence into the excruciating position of having to declare once and for all that Mr. Trump has indeed lost the election.

The fight promises to shape how Mr. Trump’s base views the election for years to come, and to pose yet another awkward test of allegiance for Republicans who have privately hoped that the Electoral College vote this week will be the final word on the election result.

For the vice president, whom the Constitution assigns the task of tallying the results and declaring a winner, the episode could be particularly torturous, forcing him to balance his loyalty to Mr. Trump with his constitutional duties and considerations about his own political future.

The effort is being led by Representative Mo Brooks, Republican of Alabama, a backbench conservative. Along with a group of allies in the House, he is eyeing challenges to the election results in five different states — Arizona, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Georgia and Wisconsin — where they claim varying degrees of fraud or illegal voting took place, despite certification by the voting authorities and no evidence of widespread impropriety.

Under rules laid out in the Constitution and the Electoral Count Act of 1887, their challenges must be submitted in writing with a senator’s signature also affixed. No Republican senator has yet stepped forward to say he or she will back such an effort, though a handful of reliable allies of Mr. Trump, including Senators Ron Johnson of Wisconsin and Rand Paul of Kentucky, have signaled they would be open to doing so.

Even if a senator did agree, constitutional scholars say the process is intended to be an arduous one. Once an objection is heard from a member of each house of Congress, senators and representatives will retreat to their chambers on opposite sides of the Capitol for a two-hour debate and then a vote on whether to disqualify a state’s votes. Both the Democratic-controlled House and Republican-controlled Senate would have to agree to toss out a state’s electoral votes — something that has not happened since the 19th century.

Several Senate Republicans — including Patrick J. Toomey of Pennsylvania, Susan Collins of Maine, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska and Mitt Romney of Utah — have forcefully rejected the idea of overturning the results, and their votes would be enough for Mr. Biden to prevail with the support of Democrats.

“The Jan. 6 meeting is going to confirm that regardless of how many objections get filed and who signs on, they are not going to affect the outcome of the process,” said Edward B. Foley, a constitutional law professor at Ohio State University who has written extensively on the electoral process. “We can say that with clear confidence.”

But he noted that the session could still carry consequences for the next few years. If even one Republican senator backed the effort, it could ensure that the partisan cloud hanging over the election would darken Mr. Biden’s presidency for years to come. If none did, it could send a definitive message to the country that despite Mr. Trump’s bluster, the party trusted the results of the electoral process and was finally ready to recognize Mr. Biden as the rightful winner.

Mr. Brooks is far from the first lawmaker to try to use the tallying process to challenge the results of a bitter election loss. House Democrats made attempts in 2001, 2005 and even 2017, but they were essentially acts of protest after their party’s nominee had already accepted defeat.

Many Republicans are already fearful of being punished by voters for failing to keep up his fight.

The dilemma is particularly acute for Mr. Pence, who is eyeing his own presidential run in 2024. As president of the Senate, he has the constitutionally-designated task of opening and tallying envelopes sent from all 50 states and announcing their electoral results.

But given Mr. Trump’s penchant for testing every law and norm in Washington, he could insist that Mr. Pence refuse to play that role.

In 1961, Richard M. Nixon, who had just lost the election, oversaw the vote tabulation and had to decide whether to recognize competing electors from the new state of Hawaii. Mr. Nixon ultimately made a decision that hurt his vote total but had no effect on the final result that John F. Kennedy had won. Forty years later, after the 2000 election, Al Gore had to reject objections from his fellow Democrats and certify the victory of George W. Bush, who had won the state of Florida after the Supreme Court ordered a recount ended in that state.


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Mona Pereth
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13 Dec 2020, 1:56 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Trump Allies Eye Long-Shot Election Reversal in Congress, Testing Pence
Quote:
...

The dilemma is particularly acute for Mr. Pence, who is eyeing his own presidential run in 2024. As president of the Senate, he has the constitutionally-designated task of opening and tallying envelopes sent from all 50 states and announcing their electoral results.

But given Mr. Trump’s penchant for testing every law and norm in Washington, he could insist that Mr. Pence refuse to play that role.

In 1961, Richard M. Nixon, who had just lost the election, oversaw the vote tabulation and had to decide whether to recognize competing electors from the new state of Hawaii. Mr. Nixon ultimately made a decision that hurt his vote total but had no effect on the final result that John F. Kennedy had won. Forty years later, after the 2000 election, Al Gore had to reject objections from his fellow Democrats and certify the victory of George W. Bush, who had won the state of Florida after the Supreme Court ordered a recount ended in that state.

As noted above, if Pence were to refuse to do his "constitutionally-designated task of opening and tallying envelopes sent from all 50 states and announcing their electoral results," that would indeed be a first. And it would be a true constitutional crisis.


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13 Dec 2020, 2:05 pm

According to A step-by-step guide to Monday's Electoral College vote by Zachary B. Wolf, CNN, Sun December 13, 2020:

Quote:
...

Is there any more room for Trump and Republicans to get in the way of the process?

Yes, a few. First, look for Republican lawmakers to raise objections during the counting of the votes January 6. If a member from the House and Senate both raise an objection, the two houses of Congress adjourn to their chambers to consider it. In 2016, Democrats in the House raised objections, but didn't have a second from a senator. That seems more likely this year. Both houses would have to sustain the objection, which won't happen with Democrats in charge of the House. So, the end result is still assured, but so is the forecast for drama.

...


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13 Dec 2020, 3:45 pm

I hope that any Congressperson who considers raising an objection to the counting of electoral votes will also consider the fact that they will eventually be facing re-election themselves.


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13 Dec 2020, 3:53 pm

https://twitter.com/i/status/1337759611219111936


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13 Dec 2020, 6:27 pm

Fnord wrote:
I hope that any Congressperson who considers raising an objection to the counting of electoral votes will also consider the fact that they will eventually be facing re-election themselves.

But here's the thing:

Republican politicians are under a lot of pressure to leave no stone unturned, indeed no grain of sand unturned, by way of defending Trump's claims. Republicans in Congress who don't raise an objection to the counting of electoral votes will likely lose their next primary election, due to the ongoing fanaticism of Trump supporters.

The Trump cult will almost certainly continue past his presidency. He will continue to be a right wing media star, even if he ends up having to run his forthcoming media empire from Russia.


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13 Dec 2020, 8:05 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I hope that any Congressperson who considers raising an objection to the counting of electoral votes will also consider the fact that they will eventually be facing re-election themselves.
But here's the thing: Republican politicians are under a lot of pressure to leave no stone unturned, indeed no grain of sand unturned, by way of defending Trump's claims. Republicans in Congress who don't raise an objection to the counting of electoral votes will likely lose their next primary election, due to the ongoing fanaticism of Trump supporters...
Hence, the GOP Congresspeople are damned if they do, and damned if they don't...

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14 Dec 2020, 12:53 am

Meanwhile, Sidney Powell has appealed to the Supreme Court over the weekend, regarding cases involving both Arizona and Michigan:

- US Supreme Court Asked to Decertify Biden’s Win in Arizona, Associated Press (via U.S. News and World Report), Dec. 13, 2020.

- Ex-Trump attorney files legal Hail Mary, asks Supreme Court to review Michigan case by Dave Boucher, Detroit Free Press, Dec. 12, 2020.


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14 Dec 2020, 7:56 am

https://electionwiz.com/2020/12/12/frau ... ends-audit

Fraud Investigator Who Sought to Disprove Sidney Powell Says His Analysis Shows Biden Did 1.5% Better Where Dominion Machines Were Deployed. Expert Recommends Audit.

Ben Turner, the founder of FraudSpotters, a company that specializes in producing fraud detection software for insurance companies, said he recommends an audit of the Dominion voting machines after his review of the data.

Turner wrote that he was shocked by Sidney Powell’s claims that Dominion voting system switched votes from Trump to Biden. Turner said his goal was to disprove Powell’s claims, but his analysis revealed troubling concerns.


https://fraudspotters.com/statistics-ab ... ion-fraud/

Ben Turner wrote:
“Statistical analysis of past presidential races supports the view that in 2020, in counties where Dominion Machines were deployed, the voting outcomes were on average (nationwide) 1.5% higher for Joe Biden and 1.5% lower for Donald Trump after adjusting for other demographic and past voting preference.

For Dominion to have switched the election from Trump to Biden, it would have had to have increased Biden outcomes (with a corresponding reduction in Trump outcomes) by 0.3% in Georgia, 0.6% in Arizona, 2.1% in Wisconsin, and 2.5% in Nevada. The apparent average of 1.5% “Dominion Effect” is greater than the margin in Arizona and Georgia, and close to the margin for Wisconsin and Nevada. It is not hard to picture a scenario where the actual effect in Wisconsin and Nevada was greater than the national average and would have changed the current reported outcome in those two states.

Assuming the “Dominion Effect” is real, it is possible that an audit of these machines would overturn the election.

These results are scientifically valid and have a p-value of less than 1%, meaning the chances of this math occurring randomly are less than 1 in 100.”


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14 Dec 2020, 9:50 am

Now an algorithm is claiming fraud?  I did not know they were susceptible to the Dunning-Kruger Effect!

What next?  Tea leaves?  I-Ching?  Tarot cards?  The entrails of a goat?

:roll: It's over, folks.  Biden won.  Deal with it!


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14 Dec 2020, 10:08 am

This sounds to me like a case of confusing correlation with causation. That Biden did better than expected in areas that happened to use Dominion machines does not mean that he did better than expected because of the Dominion machines.


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