Abortion Rights On the Chopping Block

Post Reply New Topic

It's hard close a loophole in a law though, without making new laws. It's not that easy, is it? Also, even though getting a medical procedure like that every 21 days would be taxxing, at the same time, this is a situation where beggars cannot afford to be choosers, and if you want to make an omelette, you're just going to have to break some eggs?

Because you’re talking about something that is either invasive or involves drugs that potentially harm women.

That, and you’re basically suggesting taking away women’s agency. I’m not in favor of abortion, obviously, but if there’s going to be blowback from things that I say against it, you can count on people having some strong things to say about expecting women to have an abortion procedure, or a medical abortion at least, every three months. One problem with abortion is cost, so you really think having women go every three months is going to fly? For rich, WHITE girls, maybe…

Or to put it a different way, since it seems we’re obsessed with 12 year old girls getting raped: By putting all of the responsibility on women, forcing girls to have abortive procedures every three months is kinda like saying if they get raped and pregnant it’s THEIR fault. By making pregnancy a non-issue, sex with the very young loses any sense of consequences that might deter some potential rapists. By making sure women won’t have babies, it’s like declaring open season on them.

Women have to at least have the CHOICE whether to use contraceptives, and they at least have to have the choice that they possibly COULD become pregnant. That way, you protect women AND their agency.

Right, but the egg you're suggesting to break isn't even an egg, it's a stone.

It's not too often AngelRho and I agree especially if the topic is abortion, but here we both recognize very similar failings with your suggestion.

Any proposal that's rooted in an anti-choice but pro-abortion mindset is likely to offend anti-choicers and pro-choicers both. Since pro-choicers are motivated by the view that the state needs to respect a woman's ownership over her own flesh any proposal that interferes with that is unlikely to be supported by pro-choicers.

I'd support women in Texas breaking the law by mail-ordering RU486, I'd support people out of state who assist with this, I'd support Texans working to fix this law but I don't think I could ever support mandating regular abortion services for everyone because I don't think forcing everyone to take RU486 every 3 weeks is a reasonable solution.

I don’t think he meant mandating abortive treatments, just having that as an option. It’s a logical possibility, but not something that would likely work in THIS world.

At the very least it would beg the question of 'well, what about when someone chooses to conceive'?

As written it did seem like it was a proposal to mandate termination services, although it could be an opt-in and opt-out service. Regardless it seems like a solution that doesn't have much long-term viability.

No. You can't. Typing in all caps won't make you any more correct.

We should let them work out what their needs are for themselves rather than having someone they've never met do it without their input.

Certain things are necessary for life. Abortion isn’t one of them

Yes I meant it as an option. But just trying to come up with an alternative to the problem.

People can decide what's necessary for them on their own. Who made you in charge of all women's reproductive organs?

Irrelevant. People don’t get to decide whether oxygen, food, and water are necessary. Yet you won’t live long without those things. One can, however, go an entire lifetime and never once have an abortion. It’s not about what I think women should or shouldn’t do. It’s about what is or is not. It is a FACT that all women will die if they are deprived of oxygen. It is a FACT that only in rare, extreme circumstances that women will die if deprived of an abortion. It’s not about me telling women what they can or can’t do. It’s about what anyone depends on for survival, and that’s objective. I didn’t make the rules.

No one is planning is planning to make eating, drinking or breathing illegal.That's precisely what this is about. It's literally telling women they're not allowed to do something.You're the only one here who's saying that's what it's about.

Entirely irrelevant. All of it. My point is in response to abortion as a life necessity, as something women MUST have in order to live. The plain fact is women can survive without ever getting an abortion. I’m not disputing the fact that women have access to abortion for the time being. I’m not even saying I think all abortion should be banned. Heck, I’m not even saying what I personally think women SHOULD do. I’m questioning what needs actually are versus perceived needs and, in so doing, challenging the absurd notion that people cannot in all reason and fairness say what another person’s needs are. And ordinarily, NO, abortions are not a vital necessity. It has nothing to with anything I presume to tell any woman or any other person. Are abortions requirements for life in the same sense as food, air, and water? No, they are not, and you don’t have billions of women suddenly dropping dead because they didn’t get an abortion.

Do I have the ability to tell someone what their needs are? Yes, I do. It’s a simple matter of biology.

---

True, You Have the Ability to Use Your Vocal Chords; Yet No
One Has to Listen to Ill Conceived Beliefs and that's the Point;

You Don't Seem to Have A Clue what the Mental
Health, Socio-Economic, And Overall Wellbeing

Requirements Abortion MEETS ARE as Yes, a Frigging

'First World Requirement' for Public Health THAT EVEN

Predominantly Catholic OLD MEXICO HAS

FIGURED

OUT IS A NECESSITY
FOR WOMEN'S RIGHTS For

WELL BEING AND ALL THE TOOLS
MODERN CULTURE PROVIDES

TO MEET FIRST WORLD

REQUIRMENTS

OF LIFE.

Meanwhile, the 'Big R Politicians'
in Texas, Etc., Now Make it no REAL
Secret Their Agenda is to Stay in Power,

By Meeting the Evangelistic Christian Base
Dreams to Establish A Theocracy in this Country;

Really, No IFS ANDS OR BUTTS; It's Disgusting For

Anyone Who Believes in the Principles of Religion

Separated From State That this Frigging Country was

Built on to ESCAPE FROM 'OLD EUROPE Cobwebs' And Yes,
Newer Europe has practically Escaped And there are Folks here who

Wanna take Us Back to the Frigging Dark Ages Where Women Then

Were Afforded Little to No Free Agency Over Reproductive Rights.

Anyway, Meh, Just

My Opinion and
The 'Forefathers of this Country,'

Specifically, in A 'Deistic Propensity'

to Keep Religion Separated From State;

Somehow, Managing to Keep It Under
More of a 'Masonic Definition' of A 'God' With No Name...

While Providing The Rights For Breathing Life, Liberty and

The Pursuit of Seeking Individual and Group Happiness With

Least Harm For All BREATHING LIFE.

ABORTION WASN'T EVEN A RELIGIOUS ISSUE IN THIS COUNTRY
UNTIL IT WAS POLITICIZED, Not Unlike the Pandemic, IN THE 80'S

AS A WEDGE ISSUE

TO KEEP REPUBLICAN
POLITICIANS IN POWER.

IN OTHER WORDS, There are Still
First Baptist Folks Taking their Teen
Daughters to Abortion Clinics to Save Face in Church,

For Their Illusory Socio-Economic Positions of Status in Life;

Just Like They were

Before it Became

A Political Wedge Issue
For Republican Politicians
to Stay in Power For the Four Last Decades...

---

Ah, nope.

Nope, nope, nope.

Ever consider the cost of killing anyone and everyone who caused you mental or emotional, socioeconomic, and overall well-being trauma? I’ve been blessed that some of those who caused me pain or cost me a place to live or career advancement are either dead already or, for all practical purposes half a universe away. Far enough away to be irrelevant, at least. I don’t waste time feeling bitter about things, and I’ve learned hard lessons that taught me to avoid similar people and situations.

But anyone I knew who are dead or now dying have nothing to do with me now. True story (I just love stories)—my stepfather is busy sucking oxygen from a tank while forcing my mom into isolation like she’s some personal house-slave. Fear of COVID, supposedly. They’ll travel halfway across the state to see a granddaughter get married, but he won’t let my mom come see her OWN granddaughter be born. Yeah…makes me a little annoyed, but all anyone can do in this situation is keep smiling and wish them well.

The real kick in the teeth, though, is my inheritance. If my mom dies, my stepfather and I have to split everything that belongs to MY mother. So he’s not merely content to enjoy living off the remains of his previous dead spouse…he intends to rob me of that if the opportunity presents.

Y’know, I’m keeping a more than healthy distance. I don’t need that negativity in my life. I’ve worked to make a life for myself and my 4 living children. My life is filled with gratitude for what I have, not yearning for things I haven’t earned. If my mom cares more about my stepfather than us, that is entirely her prerogative.

But don’t miss this one important point: It has been stressful in the past, it does affect me socioeconomically, and in fact ticks off every single little box you listed as justification for homicide. I should be granted an abortion myself because of the damage he caused to me back in high school, by not allowing me to see my mother, and by leaching off someone else’s fixed income. He’s old and on an oxygen tank, he’s nearing death anyway, so killing him is just doing everyone a favor, right?

The problem is if I or anyone were to actualize killing him, given the circumstances, it would most likely go down as premeditated murder. That’s an automatic death sentence where I live.

To establish a justification for homicide for one and not the other is not merely unreasonable, it is unjust.

So a woman needs her baby dead to protect her social and economic status and mental well-being. Fine. I need my stepfather dead for EXACTLY the same reason. So where do I go to start the paperwork?

The truth is…it’s never about needs. If it really came down to a true, vital necessity, sure, I could kill my stepfather and get away with it with the blessing of the justice system (if I were defending myself or my mother, for example, but not if I were trying to keep him from scamming mom for money).

Otherwise, the perceived need to kill someone is not an actual need. A person’s mental state is never an excuse for murder except in extraordinary circumstances—and simply being pregnant is hardly extraordinary. My mom being married to an @$$hole is hardly extraordinary, as pathetic as it is. No, all someone can do in my position is wait things out and hope for the best. And it is possible that a pregnant woman can wait things out. I’m not presuming to tell women what they can do, just stating alternatives. But as long as alternatives exist, no single course of action can be reasonably construed to be necessary.

Oh…and I should point out my stepfather is NOT the horrible person I’ve painted him to be. He was not abusive to us as my biological father was. But he was as much if not more so manipulative, possessive, and controlling. He hated me because I’d had enough bs while my own father was still alive and I chose not to tolerate any more from anyone else. But lots of people are stubborn and set in their ways, and that alone doesn’t make them raging, violent monsters who rule by fear. I can relate to all of that to a certain point. I’m not avoiding anyone out of fear, only because he’s unpleasant. I don’t hate my stepfather or wish him ill. It’s the opposite. But a simple case of not seeing eye-to-eye is never grounds for wanting to kill someone. He’s always been a miserable human being, even more so now that old habits from the past are finally catching up to him, and I do pray that when the time comes he finds mercy and peace.

@Ag:

Regarding abortion and power, it doesn’t make any sense to oppose something for the sake of holding onto power. Republicans have consistently had a large, conservative power base in Texas for decades. If abortion really were such a hot-button issue, Republicans would support keeping it legal since doing so would appeal to voters across the aisle.

But there’s another side to the debate. Abortion predominantly affects poor, black women, which we know as a statistical fact. So for a Republican to support abortion would mean that the Republican supports eugenics and possibly genocide. If a Democrat supports abortion, it has to fit the narrative, same as the pro-abortion Republican. That means on-demand abortion is an entitlement and empowers women, especially black women who are less likely to afford an abortion. Present-day politics is all about narrative rather than reality. Republicans don’t go far enough to control the narrative, though Trump I think made the best effort at doing that. But flipping narratives has never been a thing for any Republican. For Republicans to maintain power, even in a conservative state like Texas, they have to stick with the basics, with what they know. You can’t gain or maintain power by flipping the narrative when what you already have is working for you. If you want to change things in Texas, you’re going to have to convince most everyone in the state to switch sides.

The power in Texas is legitimately Republican, with abortion being something it seems a majority of Texans agree on.

---

'Those' Are Obviously Socio-Economic
Issues You've Dealt With Now
In Life That Have Impacted
Your Ability to Function

in Life, including

Your Mental Health
And Well-Being;

Yet Those Are Apples

Compared to Women's Oranges,

You Still Don't Seem to See From A View
Point of How this Impacts Women Now

And The Non-Breathing Life they Do
Carry after Being Impregnated, Whether

They Choose to Carry the Non-Breathing
Life to Breathing Born Life Or Not; Fortunately,

Your Specific Life Circumstances Aren't Relative

to How All the Rest of the World Sees this Reality; More
Specifically, Women Who Are Most Directly Impacted;

You Have an Opinion;

Others Have Different Opinions
That Currently Are Still Majority
Ruling A Woman's Right to Choose.

Yet It's True, Politicians Are Doing this
to Stay in Office; Desperately, Their

Only Measure

of Value

in Life in Their
Illusory Power
in the Sense and
Feel that it may
All Be Generated Within
For Free Without All These Strings

Of Degenerate Actions Taking place

That Harm the Overall Well Being of Society As Whole.

And On Top of that Nature As Whole As Humans are
Already Living out of Balance, Aborting Their Place of

Balance in Nature Now...

And Suffering All
The Consequences
For That Imbalance

We May View All Around
Us Now in Almost Innumerable
Factors of What Happens When We Cross Mother Nature's Balance...

Anyway, You've Convinced me That You've Defeated Your Own Demons
In life Without Getting in Trouble, Like So Many Other Folks in Your Position

Might Have Done in Terms of Drug Abuse, Violence, Or Other Criminal Acts of Life...

i Think That's Great

And i Laud You For
Your Accomplishments
This Way as Obviously
You've Been Through
A Lot and Are Still Surviving...

Thing is This is the Same Kind
Of Attention that i Give to the
Well Being of Others That You

Understandably Can't Seem to Identify with;

That's Okay, You Are One of Many Humans
Just Trying to Survive best you can and will...

Just Like Women,

Who Often have
to make a Heart Breaking
Decision for Their Own Well
Being Or the Well Being of the
Family They Already Have; It's
Really Impossible for Any of us

To Understand How Deep That Trauma Goes...

Except for the Person who Undergoes it And
This is Why We Currently Do Still Have Choice as an Option...

Not All Folks Are Going to Understand This And that's the Human Condition too...

Yet Again

We Have
A Democracy
And A Rule of
Law With Judges
That And Who Will
Determine the Path Forward;

Otherwise We Could Be Living
In A Third World Country Under
Cover of Even More Clothes/Tools/Ignorance
That Separate Us From Free Balancing Nature.

---