The worst thing about religion

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Kilroy
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19 Aug 2008, 12:05 pm

or just not worship him lol

Awesomelyglorious
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19 Aug 2008, 12:05 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

corroonb wrote:

That is not an argument. Any reason for assuming that everyone is insane or is this a matter of "faith"?

Have you seen the state of the world? No sane world would be like that, especially if reason is the measure of sanity. Human nature is irrational.

And then this gets turned around by someone saying, "well, it's all religion's fault!" or "impeach God!" or some other ludicrous statements.

It's all religion's fault!! IMPEACH GOD!! !!

corroonb
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19 Aug 2008, 12:05 pm

greenblue wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Human nature is irrational.

That's an Indisputable Truth.

How is a truth ever "indisputable"?

That is a frankly ridiculous thing to say. He has stated himself that he thinks logic (and therefore truth) are social constructs and necessarily insane if the society the constructed them is insane. So the truth is not true after all and you should read more before agreeing with a statement.

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19 Aug 2008, 12:06 pm

corroonb wrote:

Orwell wrote:

greenblue wrote:

corroonb wrote:

I believe in the value of logic and reason because I am not insane.

All of us in this thread, in the PPR forum for that matter, are Insane.

All of us in WP, in the human race for that matter, are Insane.

That is not an argument.

Yes it is.
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Kilroy
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19 Aug 2008, 12:06 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

corroonb wrote:

That is not an argument. Any reason for assuming that everyone is insane or is this a matter of "faith"?

Have you seen the state of the world? No sane world would be like that, especially if reason is the measure of sanity. Human nature is irrational.

And then this gets turned around by someone saying, "well, it's all religion's fault!" or "impeach God!" or some other ludicrous statements.

It's all religion's fault!! IMPEACH GOD!! !!

WHOO!! !! !! !! !! !

skafather84
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19 Aug 2008, 12:08 pm

Anubis wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

All you cavemen afraid of your own damned shadow will never know how wrong you were because once you're dead, you're gone. It's the ultimate in getting off scot free. You get to kill, rape, force your beliefs on others but you never face any repercussions because you did it for the big invisible whatever. Religion is the perfect hustle.

But yeah...being wrong and never having to face it. That's where it's at. It's too bad I'm too good of a person, I could probably easily milk you monkeys dry.

And if you have a problem with any of this...just go ahead and pray. Your invisible friend will fix it tout de suite. Afterall, it's real, right? So go ahead and pray. Pray away all the wars, pray away the suffering and poverty, pray away pain. Go ahead, the invisible friend has done such a smash-up job so far with all those prayers.

-1 for massively generalising religion and being blind to its benefits and the hope it brings.

screw hope. the hope has become lazy wishful thinking (though it seems like it's always been just that). the hope it brings is hoping that someone else can save us because we're doomed on our own. that's a failing mentality.

its benefits are the same benefits you could get from people without the theatrics. encouraging people to be charitable doesn't require a deity...you can guilt people up plenty without threatening them with eternal retribution and most people will still help and give. religion has nothing to do with that...it's just in our nature depending on the situation...and in other situations it's in our nature to just not do anything.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 700446.stm

just given demographics alone, plenty christians passed up that woman and didn't help her. religion didn't do anything to save her. one person who actually broke against the mold and stopped did.

it's interesting how discussion of religion sounds like junkies needing a fix. "but we NEED it!!"

no, you don't.

corroonb
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19 Aug 2008, 12:08 pm

twoshots wrote:

corroonb wrote:

This is my concept of a discussion on religion:

Atheist make irrefutable demand for evidence.

Theist states he does not need evidence or reason to hold a belief.

Atheist questions this.

Theist provokes hositility with patronising and false pity.

Generally yes. Because the atheist is presupposing an arbitrary a priori standard for belief. Which they almost invariably think is interpersonally binding. I mean really corroonb, anyone trolling the PPR forums deals with issues of knowledge and belief on a daily basis. If you can't offer a constructive philosophy of belief, you're being frustrating and kind of wasting our time. Belief systems are constructs; why would you start a debate and say "Complete my construct". It's not like we haven't heard something like it already.

Things like "Russel's Teapot" are so over done that there is nothing left to do but mock them. I can't speak for everyone, but I don't take individual claims very seriously here. I'm interested in interesting systems, but any atheist making those claims 90% of the time has neither a grasp of moving between different systems nor even the essential absurdity of their system.

I'm generalizing, but the disputative e-atheist tends to have characteristics that rub people the wrong way, and one of them is taking their position way too seriously.

What is belief?

Is it correct or worthwhile to believe things that you have no reason to believe?

Belief with reason = sanity

Belief without reason = insanity

Awesomelyglorious
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19 Aug 2008, 12:08 pm

corroonb wrote:

Umm..... no, I said SANITY is a social construct.

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19 Aug 2008, 12:08 pm

corroonb wrote:

greenblue wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Human nature is irrational.

That's an Indisputable Truth.

No matter how we come to go around it, it all comes down to show the true nature of humankind.

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benjimanbreeg
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19 Aug 2008, 12:09 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

benjimanbreeg wrote:

One of you come and play sport with me, and i'll laugh at you.

Chess?

Edit: I don't care to run around outside kicking balls.

chess, lol. Something that involves you getting off your backside.

corroonb
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19 Aug 2008, 12:09 pm

Orwell wrote:

corroonb wrote:

Orwell wrote:

greenblue wrote:

corroonb wrote:

I believe in the value of logic and reason because I am not insane.

All of us in this thread, in the PPR forum for that matter, are Insane.

All of us in WP, in the human race for that matter, are Insane.

That is not an argument.

Yes it is.

Statements are not arguments. Unless you are insane.

Awesomelyglorious
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19 Aug 2008, 12:10 pm

corroonb wrote:

What is belief?

Is it correct or worthwhile to believe things that you have no reason to believe?

Belief with reason = sanity

Belief without reason = insanity

Give me reason for anything you believe. Let's just say a given belief is P.

1. Suppose that P is some piece of knowledge. Then P is a justified true belief.
2. The only thing that can justify P is another statement – let's call it P1; so P1 justifies P.
3. But if P1 is to be a satisfactory justification for P, then we must know that P1.
4. But for P1 to be known, it must also be a justified true belief.
5. That justification will be another statement - let's call it P2; so P2 justifies P1.
6. But if P2 is to be a satisfactory justification for P1, then we must know that P2
7. But for P2 to count as knowledge, it must itself be a justified true belief.
8. That justification will in turn be another statement - let's call it P3; so P3 justifies P2.
9. and so on, ad infinitum.

Gotta love the regress argument. You also have gotta love Reformed Epistemology, which is simply a modified version of foundationalism.

benjimanbreeg
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19 Aug 2008, 12:10 pm

Phagocyte wrote:

corroonb wrote:

You lot are all as bad as each other. Fighting takes two or more people.

100% correct, I can't believe I was dragged into this.

Seeya, everyone.

good riddance, I think he realised he went too far.

Orwell
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19 Aug 2008, 12:11 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

benjimanbreeg wrote:

One of you come and play sport with me, and i'll laugh at you.

Chess?

Edit: I don't care to run around outside kicking balls.

I have lately taken to playing the Ruy Lopez as white, and scored quite well with it so far. Or, if I have to play black, the Alekhine's defense is always fun.

And I have never been one for physical sports either- regardless of my physical fitness, I have always been far too clumsy to succeed in such endeavors. And I don't really find success in sports to be all that impressive or intimidating.

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corroonb
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19 Aug 2008, 12:12 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

corroonb wrote:

Umm..... no, I said SANITY is a social construct.

Sanity is identical in my mind to logic and truth.

Insanity is belief without reason (religion, superstition, faith healing, paranormal) and false belief (round world, creationism)

Orwell
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19 Aug 2008, 12:14 pm

corroonb wrote:

Orwell wrote:

corroonb wrote:

Orwell wrote:

greenblue wrote:

corroonb wrote:

I believe in the value of logic and reason because I am not insane.

All of us in this thread, in the PPR forum for that matter, are Insane.

All of us in WP, in the human race for that matter, are Insane.

That is not an argument.

Yes it is.

Statements are not arguments. Unless you are insane.

Yes they are. And in case you didn't notice, I was being sarcastic. Watch that Monty Python sketch I posted, it's a welcome relief from this thread.

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