Proof of God

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SyeTenB
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16 Feb 2009, 11:27 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Ok.... so I cannot absolutely know things, ergo you win? Um.... ok? You haven't proved anything through this at all.

Um, how do you know? Oh wait, you can't. :wink:

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Awesomelyglorious
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16 Feb 2009, 11:33 pm

SyeTenB wrote:

Um, how do you know? Oh wait, you can't. :wink:

Ok, but you haven't proven that you can, or that your model is better than mine. That includes *any* of my models. In fact, you have gone out of your way so to avoid showing that Christianity is a view of much merit at all. Heck, the possibility of being wrong isn't even this big thing that most thinkers are deathly afraid of, the notion that all things must be absolute seems absurd on its face given that in the real world, not even mathematical proofs are known to be true with 100% certitude, and this is given a certain framework to judge by, this fact being shown through thinkers who mistakenly thought they proved something to be disproved later.

Last edited by Awesomelyglorious on 16 Feb 2009, 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SyeTenB
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16 Feb 2009, 11:39 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Ok, but you haven't proven that you can, or that your model is better than mine.

Is it possible for an omniscient, omnipotent being to reveal things to us such that we can know them for certain?

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Awesomelyglorious
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16 Feb 2009, 11:40 pm

SyeTenB wrote:

Is it possible for an omniscient, omnipotent being to reveal things to us such that we can know them for certain?

Christianity isn't the only system that has an omniscient, omnipotent being for one. For another, where's your mechanism for knowing with absolute certainty? For instance, how do you know revelations from drug-induced dreams?

SyeTenB
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16 Feb 2009, 11:49 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

SyeTenB wrote:

Is it possible for an omniscient, omnipotent being to reveal things to us such that we can know them for certain?

If you would answer my question, you would have the answer to yours.

Cheers

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Awesomelyglorious
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16 Feb 2009, 11:52 pm

SyeTenB wrote:

If you would answer my question, you would have the answer to yours.

Well, I am asking YOU for a mechanism. Because an omnipotent God is limited to the logically possible, correct? At least, this is how most theologians describe God, and if you deny logic when it relates to God, then all of your criticisms against the universality of logic apply back to you. Therefore, if your God is omnipotent, then his way of proving his own existence to you is logically possible, and therefore describable. If it is not describable, then there is no reason to suppose that it is logically possible to have perfect knowledge.

ruveyn
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17 Feb 2009, 6:44 am

slowmutant wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

We do NOT all believe the same thing. Which is why we have horse races and betting pools.

ruveyn

Huh?

I believe my horse is faster than yours. You believe your horse is faster than mine. We believe different things. We settle the matter with a horse race. Do you get it now?

ruveyn

Haliphron
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17 Feb 2009, 10:47 am

SyeTenB wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Ok, but you haven't proven that you can, or that your model is better than mine.

Is it possible for an omniscient, omnipotent being to reveal things to us such that we can know them for certain?

WHY Not? God can do ANYTHING, right??? :roll:

Ragtime
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17 Feb 2009, 1:45 pm

(I'm momentarily back from my much-enjoyed vacation from the Hostility & Ignorance... er, I mean PPR forum.)

Regarding the OP, a univerally-accepted definition of "proof" is so far from ever being reached, that taking the term seriously as denoting an absolute state of trueness is pointless, and even silly. Notice that I didn't say proof doesn't exist, but rather that mankind is so far away from agreeing together upon what that term means, that it is pointless to making declarations as to what is or is not "provable".

If anyone disagrees with the above, that only strengthens the argument.

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sartresue
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17 Feb 2009, 5:07 pm

Proof in the piddling, er, pudding topic

Ragtime, can you proove you are not SyTenB?

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twoshots
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17 Feb 2009, 5:21 pm

Ragtime wrote:

(I'm momentarily back from my much-enjoyed vacation from the Hostility & Ignorance... er, I mean PPR forum.)

That's "Hostility and Arrogance" to you.

And you know you love us.

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Chibi_Neko
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17 Feb 2009, 6:34 pm

slowmutant wrote:

Everybody needs something to believe in.

Why?
What about living our lives as good people?

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ruveyn
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17 Feb 2009, 8:35 pm

Chibi_Neko wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

Everybody needs something to believe in.

Why?
What about living our lives as good people?

You appear to believe that.

ruveyn

Legato
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22 Feb 2009, 3:57 am

http://www.proofthatgodexists.org/no-morality.php

This is a load of drivel. Yes, rape is wrong to me, and to my society. But there DO exist societies where rape is not wrong to them. I choose to live in this society and condemn rape for two reasons:

A. I was born and raised here, so my morals and values will tend to follow my society's and family's.

B. My logical deduction says that physical harm to another individual is not desirable, therefore I prefer to live in a society where said harm is punished.

That site is grossly oversimplified and makes way too many emotional gut-reaction arguments.

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