Turns out that the Tea Party is overwhelmingly white xtian
28 Mar 2011, 7:02 pm
Bataar wrote:
I'm not saying you are. I'm trying to show that the birthers are trying to get him out of office because they don't like his policies, not because he's half black.
That's actually my view of the whole thing, it's not really much different than any of the fishing expeditions launched at Clinton in the 90's to try and get him thrown out of office. I don't think the Republicans of that era cared any more about Bill's affairs than the current crop do about where Obama was born, but find them politically useful as weapons against their partisan foes.
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28 Mar 2011, 8:05 pm
Bataar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Bataar wrote:
Orwell wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I'm not denying there are a lot of racists IN the Tea Party. There certainly are.
However, I do not think racism is the driving factor for the Tea Party stance.
However, I do not think racism is the driving factor for the Tea Party stance.
Perhaps not THE driving factor, but it seems to be a significant undercurrent. The Birthers are the ones most obviously driven by racism.
How so? In what way is it even a race issue for anyone to use the possibility that a president they don't like was not born in the U.S. to get him out of office? I guarantee you, that if there had been any question at all that President Bush hadn't been born in the U.S., he would be getting the same flack from the left, if not more so than Obama has received. Would that have been racist?
Of course it's about racism. If the current president's father had come from Germany or Ireland, but said president was born in America, no one would have dreamed of bringing up this issue. But because Obama is black is the reason why the lunatic fringe is coming out full force in this matter.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
If the current president's father had come from German or Ireland but said president was born in America, no one would have dramed of bringing it up because there would be no law against it. The issue isn't where Obama's father was born, but where Obama himself was born. There are people who believe he was actually born in Kenya, not Hawaii, which would make it illegal to be president. If you're a person who disagrees with the president's policies and there is a conspiracy that shows it may be illegal for him to be president, you'd probably be supporting it too. Like I said, if there was evidence that President Bush was not born in the U.S. and it was illegal for him to be president, the uproar would have been huge. Again, it's not about race.
I think the birther thing may have came out as a preemptive strike cuz Mccain was born in panama. (really was check his bio)
then it took a life of its own.
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Kraichgauer
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28 Mar 2011, 8:33 pm
Bataar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Bataar wrote:
Orwell wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I'm not denying there are a lot of racists IN the Tea Party. There certainly are.
However, I do not think racism is the driving factor for the Tea Party stance.
However, I do not think racism is the driving factor for the Tea Party stance.
Perhaps not THE driving factor, but it seems to be a significant undercurrent. The Birthers are the ones most obviously driven by racism.
How so? In what way is it even a race issue for anyone to use the possibility that a president they don't like was not born in the U.S. to get him out of office? I guarantee you, that if there had been any question at all that President Bush hadn't been born in the U.S., he would be getting the same flack from the left, if not more so than Obama has received. Would that have been racist?
Of course it's about racism. If the current president's father had come from Germany or Ireland, but said president was born in America, no one would have dreamed of bringing up this issue. But because Obama is black is the reason why the lunatic fringe is coming out full force in this matter.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
If the current president's father had come from German or Ireland but said president was born in America, no one would have dramed of bringing it up because there would be no law against it. The issue isn't where Obama's father was born, but where Obama himself was born. There are people who believe he was actually born in Kenya, not Hawaii, which would make it illegal to be president. If you're a person who disagrees with the president's policies and there is a conspiracy that shows it may be illegal for him to be president, you'd probably be supporting it too. Like I said, if there was evidence that President Bush was not born in the U.S. and it was illegal for him to be president, the uproar would have been huge. Again, it's not about race.
Of course I know the birther idiocy is about where Obama, and not his father, was born.
My point was, if he was white, it wouldn't have mattered to anyone if his father was foreign born. But because Obama has a black face, loons are using this conspiracy theory to oust him from the White House.
And no, I don't believe this would be happening if Bush's place of birth was disputed.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
29 Mar 2011, 12:31 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
Bataar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Bataar wrote:
Orwell wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I'm not denying there are a lot of racists IN the Tea Party. There certainly are.
However, I do not think racism is the driving factor for the Tea Party stance.
However, I do not think racism is the driving factor for the Tea Party stance.
Perhaps not THE driving factor, but it seems to be a significant undercurrent. The Birthers are the ones most obviously driven by racism.
How so? In what way is it even a race issue for anyone to use the possibility that a president they don't like was not born in the U.S. to get him out of office? I guarantee you, that if there had been any question at all that President Bush hadn't been born in the U.S., he would be getting the same flack from the left, if not more so than Obama has received. Would that have been racist?
Of course it's about racism. If the current president's father had come from Germany or Ireland, but said president was born in America, no one would have dreamed of bringing up this issue. But because Obama is black is the reason why the lunatic fringe is coming out full force in this matter.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
If the current president's father had come from German or Ireland but said president was born in America, no one would have dramed of bringing it up because there would be no law against it. The issue isn't where Obama's father was born, but where Obama himself was born. There are people who believe he was actually born in Kenya, not Hawaii, which would make it illegal to be president. If you're a person who disagrees with the president's policies and there is a conspiracy that shows it may be illegal for him to be president, you'd probably be supporting it too. Like I said, if there was evidence that President Bush was not born in the U.S. and it was illegal for him to be president, the uproar would have been huge. Again, it's not about race.
Of course I know the birther idiocy is about where Obama, and not his father, was born.
My point was, if he was white, it wouldn't have mattered to anyone if his father was foreign born. But because Obama has a black face, loons are using this conspiracy theory to oust him from the White House.
And no, I don't believe this would be happening if Bush's place of birth was disputed.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Well here is the flaw in your argument, the left did try that on John S. McCain, whom both parents were born in the US however he was born on a US Military Base. There were radical leftists trying to disqualify him from being able to run for President (nevermind the fact his dad was there under orders of the US Government and a US military base is technically US soil.
Fortunately, it was so out there that it had Democrats looking at these people like they were nuts.
Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
29 Mar 2011, 12:43 am
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Bataar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Bataar wrote:
Orwell wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I'm not denying there are a lot of racists IN the Tea Party. There certainly are.
However, I do not think racism is the driving factor for the Tea Party stance.
However, I do not think racism is the driving factor for the Tea Party stance.
Perhaps not THE driving factor, but it seems to be a significant undercurrent. The Birthers are the ones most obviously driven by racism.
How so? In what way is it even a race issue for anyone to use the possibility that a president they don't like was not born in the U.S. to get him out of office? I guarantee you, that if there had been any question at all that President Bush hadn't been born in the U.S., he would be getting the same flack from the left, if not more so than Obama has received. Would that have been racist?
Of course it's about racism. If the current president's father had come from Germany or Ireland, but said president was born in America, no one would have dreamed of bringing up this issue. But because Obama is black is the reason why the lunatic fringe is coming out full force in this matter.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
If the current president's father had come from German or Ireland but said president was born in America, no one would have dramed of bringing it up because there would be no law against it. The issue isn't where Obama's father was born, but where Obama himself was born. There are people who believe he was actually born in Kenya, not Hawaii, which would make it illegal to be president. If you're a person who disagrees with the president's policies and there is a conspiracy that shows it may be illegal for him to be president, you'd probably be supporting it too. Like I said, if there was evidence that President Bush was not born in the U.S. and it was illegal for him to be president, the uproar would have been huge. Again, it's not about race.
Of course I know the birther idiocy is about where Obama, and not his father, was born.
My point was, if he was white, it wouldn't have mattered to anyone if his father was foreign born. But because Obama has a black face, loons are using this conspiracy theory to oust him from the White House.
And no, I don't believe this would be happening if Bush's place of birth was disputed.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Well here is the flaw in your argument, the left did try that on John S. McCain, whom both parents were born in the US however he was born on a US Military Base. There were radical leftists trying to disqualify him from being able to run for President (nevermind the fact his dad was there under orders of the US Government and a US military base is technically US soil.
Fortunately, it was so out there that it had Democrats looking at these people like they were nuts.
Actually, you just neutralized your own argument by admitting that it was the Democratic party that chose to ignore their lunatic fringe's birther conspiracy. The question is, why haven't the Republicans had the same courage to shut up their birther loons?
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
29 Mar 2011, 8:05 am
ruveyn wrote:
Yoo Hoo, Guys There are Jews in the T-Party.
I am not one of them, but I know a few.
ruveyn
I am not one of them, but I know a few.
ruveyn
Sigh. You NEVER get the point. Or you are just chronologically impaired.
Of course there are Jews in the Tea Party. Attitudes about them have shifted. Today their presence is accepted or even ignored, whereas in the past they were disparaged in society, even more so than the Irish.
They were not always accepted as average everyday Americans, but you probably know that much better than I.
ruveyn: what did a typical Victorian era gentleman think about a typical Victorian era Jew? Would he let him join his country club?
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Kraichgauer
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Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
29 Mar 2011, 12:15 pm
pandabear wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Yoo Hoo, Guys There are Jews in the T-Party.
I am not one of them, but I know a few.
ruveyn
I am not one of them, but I know a few.
ruveyn
Yeah, but you still can't get into the Ku Klux Klan. Not yet, anyways. They did lower their standards to allow Catholics in, but, as far as I know, still no Jews.
As I understand it, many years ago, there was a Jewish gentleman who did hide his ethno-religious identity and joined the Klan. He committed suicide after he was outed by a New York paper.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
29 Mar 2011, 1:04 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Bataar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Bataar wrote:
Orwell wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I'm not denying there are a lot of racists IN the Tea Party. There certainly are.
However, I do not think racism is the driving factor for the Tea Party stance.
However, I do not think racism is the driving factor for the Tea Party stance.
Perhaps not THE driving factor, but it seems to be a significant undercurrent. The Birthers are the ones most obviously driven by racism.
How so? In what way is it even a race issue for anyone to use the possibility that a president they don't like was not born in the U.S. to get him out of office? I guarantee you, that if there had been any question at all that President Bush hadn't been born in the U.S., he would be getting the same flack from the left, if not more so than Obama has received. Would that have been racist?
Of course it's about racism. If the current president's father had come from Germany or Ireland, but said president was born in America, no one would have dreamed of bringing up this issue. But because Obama is black is the reason why the lunatic fringe is coming out full force in this matter.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
If the current president's father had come from German or Ireland but said president was born in America, no one would have dramed of bringing it up because there would be no law against it. The issue isn't where Obama's father was born, but where Obama himself was born. There are people who believe he was actually born in Kenya, not Hawaii, which would make it illegal to be president. If you're a person who disagrees with the president's policies and there is a conspiracy that shows it may be illegal for him to be president, you'd probably be supporting it too. Like I said, if there was evidence that President Bush was not born in the U.S. and it was illegal for him to be president, the uproar would have been huge. Again, it's not about race.
Of course I know the birther idiocy is about where Obama, and not his father, was born.
My point was, if he was white, it wouldn't have mattered to anyone if his father was foreign born. But because Obama has a black face, loons are using this conspiracy theory to oust him from the White House.
And no, I don't believe this would be happening if Bush's place of birth was disputed.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Well here is the flaw in your argument, the left did try that on John S. McCain, whom both parents were born in the US however he was born on a US Military Base. There were radical leftists trying to disqualify him from being able to run for President (nevermind the fact his dad was there under orders of the US Government and a US military base is technically US soil.
Fortunately, it was so out there that it had Democrats looking at these people like they were nuts.
Actually, you just neutralized your own argument by admitting that it was the Democratic party that chose to ignore their lunatic fringe's birther conspiracy. The question is, why haven't the Republicans had the same courage to shut up their birther loons?
Actually the Democrats reacted out of fear of political backlash, if they had supported the far left on that, you would have had a huge backlash that would have made their thrashing in 2010 look like a good year for Democrats. Simply put, if they had supported the idea that John S. McCain, whom was born on a US military base, whose father was in the military and mother a US citizen was ineligible to be President, they would be saying that the children of US servicemen and women whom are born on a US base and not stateside were not natural born citizens. There would be enormous anger from the US military, military families, average citizens, etc. It would have cemented the stereotype that Democrats hate our military, despise people that put their lives on the line for this country, etc. In short, it would have been the equivalent of committing political suicide.
29 Mar 2011, 1:28 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
My point was, if he was white, it wouldn't have mattered to anyone if his father was foreign born. But because Obama has a black face, loons are using this conspiracy theory to oust him from the White House.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Bold is mine.
Exactly, and if he was white, they'd be digging for something else to use, it's just politics as usual tailored to fit the target of the moment. Birtherism is a means to an end; defeating an ideological enemy. I'm sure there are racist birthers out there, but to claim that the only possible reason for being one is racism is being naive. Trump, for example, is clearly using the whole thing as an elaborate publicity stunt for god only knows what ends (though I hear his Apprentice rating are up...) while most Republicans seem content to sit back and let the "issue" annoy Obama supporters and make them waste energy refuting it.
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Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer.
- Rick Sanchez
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
29 Mar 2011, 1:33 pm
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Bataar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Bataar wrote:
Orwell wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I'm not denying there are a lot of racists IN the Tea Party. There certainly are.
However, I do not think racism is the driving factor for the Tea Party stance.
However, I do not think racism is the driving factor for the Tea Party stance.
Perhaps not THE driving factor, but it seems to be a significant undercurrent. The Birthers are the ones most obviously driven by racism.
How so? In what way is it even a race issue for anyone to use the possibility that a president they don't like was not born in the U.S. to get him out of office? I guarantee you, that if there had been any question at all that President Bush hadn't been born in the U.S., he would be getting the same flack from the left, if not more so than Obama has received. Would that have been racist?
Of course it's about racism. If the current president's father had come from Germany or Ireland, but said president was born in America, no one would have dreamed of bringing up this issue. But because Obama is black is the reason why the lunatic fringe is coming out full force in this matter.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
If the current president's father had come from German or Ireland but said president was born in America, no one would have dramed of bringing it up because there would be no law against it. The issue isn't where Obama's father was born, but where Obama himself was born. There are people who believe he was actually born in Kenya, not Hawaii, which would make it illegal to be president. If you're a person who disagrees with the president's policies and there is a conspiracy that shows it may be illegal for him to be president, you'd probably be supporting it too. Like I said, if there was evidence that President Bush was not born in the U.S. and it was illegal for him to be president, the uproar would have been huge. Again, it's not about race.
Of course I know the birther idiocy is about where Obama, and not his father, was born.
My point was, if he was white, it wouldn't have mattered to anyone if his father was foreign born. But because Obama has a black face, loons are using this conspiracy theory to oust him from the White House.
And no, I don't believe this would be happening if Bush's place of birth was disputed.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Well here is the flaw in your argument, the left did try that on John S. McCain, whom both parents were born in the US however he was born on a US Military Base. There were radical leftists trying to disqualify him from being able to run for President (nevermind the fact his dad was there under orders of the US Government and a US military base is technically US soil.
Fortunately, it was so out there that it had Democrats looking at these people like they were nuts.
Actually, you just neutralized your own argument by admitting that it was the Democratic party that chose to ignore their lunatic fringe's birther conspiracy. The question is, why haven't the Republicans had the same courage to shut up their birther loons?
Actually the Democrats reacted out of fear of political backlash, if they had supported the far left on that, you would have had a huge backlash that would have made their thrashing in 2010 look like a good year for Democrats. Simply put, if they had supported the idea that John S. McCain, whom was born on a US military base, whose father was in the military and mother a US citizen was ineligible to be President, they would be saying that the children of US servicemen and women whom are born on a US base and not stateside were not natural born citizens. There would be enormous anger from the US military, military families, average citizens, etc. It would have cemented the stereotype that Democrats hate our military, despise people that put their lives on the line for this country, etc. In short, it would have been the equivalent of committing political suicide.
I'm not denying there was fear of being called anti-military, but I think there was just the feeling among Democrats that the lunatic fringe has to be kept in check.
Now, if only the Republicans would do the same thing.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
29 Mar 2011, 1:35 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm not denying there was fear of being called anti-military, but I think there was just the feeling among Democrats that the lunatic fringe has to be kept in check.
Now, if only the Republicans would do the same thing.
Now, if only the Republicans would do the same thing.
McCain released his birth certificate, I just want Obama to release his cause I'm getting fed up with listening to it and Trump has a point about driver's licenses and stuff.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
29 Mar 2011, 1:41 pm
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm not denying there was fear of being called anti-military, but I think there was just the feeling among Democrats that the lunatic fringe has to be kept in check.
Now, if only the Republicans would do the same thing.
Now, if only the Republicans would do the same thing.
McCain released his birth certificate, I just want Obama to release his cause I'm getting fed up with listening to it and Trump has a point about driver's licenses and stuff.
Personally, if people wanted me to prove I was a legitimate citizen, I'd tell them to go to hell.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
29 Mar 2011, 1:48 pm
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
My point was, if he was white, it wouldn't have mattered to anyone if his father was foreign born. But because Obama has a black face, loons are using this conspiracy theory to oust him from the White House.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Bold is mine.
Exactly, and if he was white, they'd be digging for something else to use, it's just politics as usual tailored to fit the target of the moment. Birtherism is a means to an end; defeating an ideological enemy. I'm sure there are racist birthers out there, but to claim that the only possible reason for being one is racism is being naive. Trump, for example, is clearly using the whole thing as an elaborate publicity stunt for god only knows what ends (though I hear his Apprentice rating are up...) while most Republicans seem content to sit back and let the "issue" annoy Obama supporters and make them waste energy refuting it.
I think you're absolutely right that they'd be using something else to try to oust him if he were white (wasn't there some thing about how the Clintons supposedly murdered that guy who committed suicide...?), but I don't think that it would have quite the hysterical edge that birthers have, and it wouldn't be so focused on painting the President as 'other,' 'not American,' 'not one of us,' and 'unworthy of the office by his very birth.'
29 Mar 2011, 1:49 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm not denying there was fear of being called anti-military, but I think there was just the feeling among Democrats that the lunatic fringe has to be kept in check.
Now, if only the Republicans would do the same thing.
Now, if only the Republicans would do the same thing.
McCain released his birth certificate, I just want Obama to release his cause I'm getting fed up with listening to it and Trump has a point about driver's licenses and stuff.
Personally, if people wanted me to prove I was a legitimate citizen, I'd tell them to go to hell.
Actually, it would depend. If it is from a job offer then yeah they have a legit reason to ask for it. If it is on the street, then no they don't.
