Atheists - why?

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I understand why you say that ...


Yes, and don't you know that?!

Because it would be globally catastrophic to stop the earth's rotation and reverse it...? Though, on that line of thought, perhaps that, or at least a drastic slowing down of the earth's rotation could have affected a "Great Flood". However, polarity would also have had to have had a drastic shift since then to effect the specific areas claimed. Hmmm...

Personally, I would speculate God simply has better things to do than to mess around with His already-invented wheel!

Or, maybe the sun already actually does rise in the west and we humans have simply been facing in the wrong direction all this time!

LOL .. that just changes the perspective of the question, doesn't negate it......but I still appreciate that answer!!

then you are among the lucky few.

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/alerts/l/blnaa04.htm

If they are suffering alcoholism, it is a disease and not asking for help is a symptom of it.

"God never healed your broken leg because you never took the time to walk to Church."


They haven't been shown the way because a higher power didn't send them people to show them the way.


If there is a process they must go through, then how does god help?

As you might already know, there are far too many reasons people in any kind of need might not ask for help, and I assume you would then also agree as to the impossibility of ever compiling a comprehensive list of those reasons. But from within my own personal experience and observation, here are some very common ones among alcoholics:

1) "I wanna be the boss of me", and/or
2) "No, I am just not gonna ever let anybody or anything else ever be the boss of me!"

As deadly as "free will" might occasionally seem to be, I still say that is "free will" at work ...

"... and the alcoholic is an extreme example of self-will run riot, though he usually doesn't think so." (page 62)

And in 1981, that was me ... and "to a 'T'", whatever that means!

Along with those kinds of reasons, of course, there are people who are too "embarrassed" (by whatever), insecure (about whatever) and/or even "just feeling too damned 'ashamed'" to ask for help, but in the final analysis there, there is still nothing specific about alcoholism, itself -- a mental obsession coupled with physical allergy (thereafter further challenged by the "alcoholic insanity" (A.A. term) of thinking safe drinking might yet somehow nevertheless be (again) found possible) -- making "not asking for help" any more of a problem for the alcoholic than in the case of anyone else with any other kind of problem.

Now someone might come back on that and say the alcoholic can more-easily-than-other-people eventually become one of the most-inferior-or-unworthy-feeling people on earth, and yes, I could easily agree. However, and even if we now bring the side effect of "Organic Brain Syndrome" (OBS) into play here -- turning brains into "pickles" and having symptoms similar to those of the final stage of terminal syphilis -- there is still nothing about alcoholism, itself, to specifically cause an alcoholic to "not ask for help" (if s/he would otherwise actually be willing and able to do so).

One of the worst stories I have ever heard along that kind of line is that of Jack Brennan from many, many years ago, and I will gladly pay the cost -- just PM me -- if you might ever want to listen to it:

http://www.historyofrecovery.com/prodde ... ?prod=9018

You had illustrated:

In Jack's case, he was laying nearly-unconscious out on a sidewalk in front of a public bathroom where he had just "busted his mouth open" on a filthy toilet while trying to get his "morning drink" to stay down, and he was then just barely able to crawl out onto that sidewalk and mumble through the blood his "last-gasp 'Help me'" to some passerby ... and then it was not long at all before "Sam" had responded and picked him up and took him on home and helped him.


There is certainly no way I could ever irrefutably state that never happens, but I can tell you that is exactly what was done for me when a former therapist and my ex-wife happened to see each other in a grocery store or wherever and "Freeman" said precisely this to her: "Next time you see Joe, tell him I am sober." ... and that is where my having myself locked up so I could sober up and hopefully actually remain sober -- two or three days was my max -- and go see him. Some time later, that man told me he had actually wanted to come looking for me sooner, but we both then ended up easily agreeing that would not have been a good thing to do at that specific time.


To be quite literal here: God does not actually "help" at all. Rather, He simply accepts any and all "comers" who "take the Steps" -- the "process" -- in order to ultimately experience the reconciliation and transformation He has already made possible to/for anyone who wants to experience the result ...

... and to put that in some kind of perspective here: "Oh, just pray to Jesus and he will heal you!" is not even close to being the same kind of thing ... and that is why very, very few real alcoholics -- pages 21, 23, 30 (3 occurrences), 34, 35, 92, 109 -- ever get help via sectarian religion.

If the Judeo-Christian-Islamic god is the "one true god", why did he remain silent while the human race worshiped a multitude of different gods for 10s of thousands of years? (Jewish religion started about 3000 years ago, the other 2 started later)

Pft. I don't give two sh!ts if god wrote Furbies into "the plan"- Santa's the one who gave ME stuffs, and that's why I believe in him.
Of course Santa's fat- he eats millions of cookies with milk and has a very stressful job. How dare you shame him by implying he shouldn't be?!

Santa sees you when you're sleeping and knows when you're awake! He knows EVERYTHING little boys and girls do, good and bad, which is why you gotta be good if you want presents. And believe in him, of course.

Santa doesn't speak Latin. Don't you remember when he said "Rudolph with your nose so bright/won't you guide my sleigh tonight, thus hiring Rudolph to lead his reindeer team? What about where he says "Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night"? You're not very well-researched.

Come back when you have your scientific facts straight.

Last edited by Bethie on 11 May 2011, 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

He overslept, which is why he's so damned cranky in the OT.

He worked on some issues from his childhood and started adopting more responsible habits,
and then he spawned himself to go down to da Urf and tell teh peoplz "psych".

You are quite right, St Nicolaos spoke Greek, not Latin. I played him in a Latin class presentation because there was medieval Latin play about him. Like putting the dialog of Gladiator into English.

I cannot speak to his diet, but most of the preCoke portraits show a guy who obviously did not down many cookies.

Belief in Nicolaos is very complex and fraught with contradictions and paradoxes. The main thing I know is, distrust any representations from North America later than 1910. I tghink you will find, if you look into it, that if he has access to surveillance data it is not of his own gathering, but passed from a different unit tasked with that function.

The elves, of course, are a myth. But we should not say Ms Claus is a myth,.that would theem motht irregular.

I am inclined to believe He did not, and that we simply have no record saying/proving the matter either way. Scripture does seem to have a genealogical record going all the way back to "Adam", but that does not prove said "Adam" to have once been a solitary man until "Eve" had been placed on the scene.

Disclaimer: All of that is but speculation on my own part.

this judeo-christian-islamic god was very, very quit in lands of the vikings.... he had nothing to say until 965 that could convince the vikings to drop their own gods.

first when the mighty harald bluetooth ordered them they should, it happened.

so much for this so called omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent god that allegedly created the whole universe 6000 years ago... but wasn't able to claim his power the first 5000 years in the north... wow.

it took him even longer to reach the americas...

even long before jesus was born, a clever guy figured out that all this mono-god thing was rediculous and didn't make sense:





and here we are ... still discussing this silly story with all these people who really believe it is true that there is a god.

@aspi-rant: Your post definitely intrigues me, but I will likely just make a mess of it in my simple ignorance of even known (actually recorded) history.

Pure speculation: Maybe He knew they would not respond well.


I know nothing about that.


However logical that might seem, you are still only speculating an inability there.


Possibly no "Columbus" had ever been previously born?


Had you noticed the missing "if" in that equation?


To even attempt to answer that, we first need a clear and agreed-upon definition and understanding of that specific use of the word "willing".


Pure rhetorical dogma there, and even though/if coming from the very best minds available.


Do you have an answer (at least for yourself) as to why you do that?

my answer are emphasized with bold text

sorry that i didn't took the time to make separate quotes.

What about Viracocha, Quetzalcoatl, or Kukulcan... I'm not saying anything definitive, just pointing out a myth(s) that could possibly support the idea that it didn't take God quite so long to reach the Americas..