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Sand
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25 Jun 2011, 9:03 pm

cave_canem wrote:
WilliamWDelaney wrote:
Someone who doesn't appreciate the Finns and their language is just sad, sad, sad. Sweden is also a superior culture, but their language is packed with English cognates and has a syntax functionally identical in most respects to English. But Finnish is rather unique, by comparison.

However, I must agree that Latin has grown rather redundant even in the academy.


I disagree regarding Latin.

I think many doctors and lawyers would benefit from taking Latin. I am sure there are other discplines that would benefit from the study of Latin as well.

I took many Latin courses in my younger days, and I still find it to be useful when I encounter a word derived from Latin that I'm unfamiliar with - rarely do I have to resort to pulling out my dictionary.


Of course, to get back to the main topic, if same sex couples spoke Latin there might be interesting problems.



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25 Jun 2011, 9:06 pm

Sand wrote:
Of course, to get back to the main topic, if same sex couples spoke Latin there might be interesting problems.


I'm intrigued. Please elaborate, if you will.



Sand
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25 Jun 2011, 11:41 pm

cave_canem wrote:
Sand wrote:
Of course, to get back to the main topic, if same sex couples spoke Latin there might be interesting problems.


I'm intrigued. Please elaborate, if you will.


I'm intrigued too. Just wondering how a discussion of Latin pertains to same sex marriage.



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26 Jun 2011, 12:46 am

WilliamWDelaney wrote:
Someone who doesn't appreciate the Finns and their language is just sad, sad, sad. Sweden is also a superior culture, but their language is packed with English cognates and has a syntax functionally identical in most respects to English. But Finnish is rather unique, by comparison.

However, I must agree that Latin has grown rather redundant even in the academy.


Swedish and English are both in the Germanic language family, that's why they sound similar, although English is West Germanic (along with Dutch and German) and Sweden is North Germanic (along with Danish, Norwegian, Icelandic, and Faeroese).

Finnish is part of the Finno-Ugric language family, which also includes Estonian, Saami (the language of Lappland in northern Scandinavia), languages of northwestern Russia (Karelia, the Murmansk area, all the way to the Urals), and ultimately Hungarian. This family may also be very distantly related to Turkish, the languages of ex-Soviet Central Asia (Kazakh, Uzbek, etc.), Mongolian, and possibly Japanese.


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WilliamWDelaney
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26 Jun 2011, 6:35 am

@Tim_Tex, what I was remarking on was the fact that modern Swedish and modern English appear to have a nigh identical syntax, compared to English and German. Now, the peculiar thing about the Saami people is that they appear to have a closer relationship with the Berber people than they do with most Northern Europeans, and their religion is a lot more characteristic than the ancient Norse religion to the shamanistic cultures common to the holarctic in general. This may suggest support for the Eskimo-Uralic theory. Quite frankly, I think this ties nicely into the fact that mitochondrial haplogroup CZ is found in certain Amerindian ethnicities, especially many who, like the Saami and their relatives, identify closely with "animal spirits" in their religious practices.

However, a more philosophical question is whether or not this denotes that genetics may share in the causality of how religious beliefs tend to form, or does it merely suggest that human beings are more skilled than they are given credit for in keeping their ancestral culture alive? I think that it is sharply relevant that many pagan practices have survived in modern Christianity, such as the presence of equivalents of ancient pagan gods among the Catholic "Demonic Princes." Therefore, I tend to lean toward the latter assumption, but I would also submit the caveat that it is also suggestive that the medieval Christians tended to get more lip service out of the heathens than actual heartfelt faith in their ideas.

It is noteworthy that Tengriism, which was a belief held by the Hunnish invaders of Europe and is also rife in Central Asia, holds that a shaman (their equivalent of a priest) should be identified by whether he is struck with sudden illness (probably either severe migraines or epilepsy). Now, if I understand correctly, there are stories from Medieval Christianity as late as the time of Luther of religious figures being "struck by lightning" or some other illness and coming down with religion as a result. This includes Paul the Apostle, who was himself from a part of the world where Tengriism (Gok Tanri) was once in common practice (Turkey), and it is also noteworthy that some scholars have interpreted Paul's "thorn" (which he discussed in 2 Cor. 12:7-10) to be a migraine condition.

Of course, a great deal of this rambling tirade is borne of rampant speculation. But I do think that it is worthy of discussion that very little of our religious ideas were actually born in an absolute vacuum. In fact, I think that we should be given to wonder whether certain British royals being referred to as "lions" and such (or heraldry for that matter!) may have a relationship with the Saami and Cherokee habit of identifying closely with animal spirits. Or perhaps we should wonder just how far back the British dog-fever actually goes, considering the links between ancient Celtic culture and that of India (where dogs are also common. It is perhaps no coincidence that some researchers have suggested that the Cherokee may have been responsible for bringing over the yellow dog that is indigeonous to Southeastern North America.

Okay, I'll stop. I'm getting dizzy. I think it was probably a bad idea to pop all those fish oils yesterday.



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26 Jun 2011, 3:21 pm

WilliamWDelaney wrote:
@Tim_Tex, what I was remarking on was the fact that modern Swedish and modern English appear to have a nigh identical syntax, compared to English and German. Now, the peculiar thing about the Saami people is that they appear to have a closer relationship with the Berber people than they do with most Northern Europeans, and their religion is a lot more characteristic than the ancient Norse religion to the shamanistic cultures common to the holarctic in general. This may suggest support for the Eskimo-Uralic theory. Quite frankly, I think this ties nicely into the fact that mitochondrial haplogroup CZ is found in certain Amerindian ethnicities, especially many who, like the Saami and their relatives, identify closely with "animal spirits" in their religious practices.

However, a more philosophical question is whether or not this denotes that genetics may share in the causality of how religious beliefs tend to form, or does it merely suggest that human beings are more skilled than they are given credit for in keeping their ancestral culture alive? I think that it is sharply relevant that many pagan practices have survived in modern Christianity, such as the presence of equivalents of ancient pagan gods among the Catholic "Demonic Princes." Therefore, I tend to lean toward the latter assumption, but I would also submit the caveat that it is also suggestive that the medieval Christians tended to get more lip service out of the heathens than actual heartfelt faith in their ideas.

It is noteworthy that Tengriism, which was a belief held by the Hunnish invaders of Europe and is also rife in Central Asia, holds that a shaman (their equivalent of a priest) should be identified by whether he is struck with sudden illness (probably either severe migraines or epilepsy). Now, if I understand correctly, there are stories from Medieval Christianity as late as the time of Luther of religious figures being "struck by lightning" or some other illness and coming down with religion as a result. This includes Paul the Apostle, who was himself from a part of the world where Tengriism (Gok Tanri) was once in common practice (Turkey), and it is also noteworthy that some scholars have interpreted Paul's "thorn" (which he discussed in 2 Cor. 12:7-10) to be a migraine condition.

Of course, a great deal of this rambling tirade is borne of rampant speculation. But I do think that it is worthy of discussion that very little of our religious ideas were actually born in an absolute vacuum. In fact, I think that we should be given to wonder whether certain British royals being referred to as "lions" and such (or heraldry for that matter!) may have a relationship with the Saami and Cherokee habit of identifying closely with animal spirits. Or perhaps we should wonder just how far back the British dog-fever actually goes, considering the links between ancient Celtic culture and that of India (where dogs are also common. It is perhaps no coincidence that some researchers have suggested that the Cherokee may have been responsible for bringing over the yellow dog that is indigeonous to Southeastern North America.

Okay, I'll stop. I'm getting dizzy. I think it was probably a bad idea to pop all those fish oils yesterday.


The story goes, Luther while on his way to study at the university, had nearly been struck by lightening, after which he swore to God he'd become a monk if he survived the storm. The rest is history.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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27 Jun 2011, 2:40 pm

Sand wrote:
Of course, to get back to the main topic, if same sex couples spoke Latin there might be interesting problems.


loquor modo lingua latine quem me docuit mater.

I'm in a same sex relationship, and I speak Latin. It's not strictly required for legal or medical education, but it certainly provides some ease with learning material of long standing (such as anatomical nomenclature and Common Law pleas).

As languages go, it is particularly easy to learn--especially if you have degree of familiarity with any of the Romance languages.


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Philologos
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27 Jun 2011, 4:02 pm

visagrunt wrote:
As languages go, it is particularly easy to learn--especially if you have degree of familiarity with any of the Romance languages.


Or vice versa.

Higher inflection helps



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28 Jun 2011, 8:44 pm

Philologos wrote:
Or vice versa.

Higher inflection helps


vero, tute reapse non bene loqueris Gallice. immo vero modo male et corrupte pronuntias sermonem Latinum plebium ac vernaculum.


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29 Jun 2011, 2:21 pm

Jory wrote:
There is no exception, you ding dong. Nobody chooses to be gay.


There seems to be a small percentage of gay people, a small percentage of straight people, and everyone else is bisexual (with a very small percent asexual).

I think the reason most of these anti-marriage arguments are based on self-loathing coming from closeted gay/bi folks. Look at most of the people who run ex-gay ministries or churches against gay rights. How many of them get caught in a same sex fling? Humans are the one of the most sexual animals on the planet. We're closely related to bonobos and made to have sex with just about everything that moves. Think of your last trip to the zoo; what were our closest relatives doing? How many of them were masturbating, just in the five minutes you were staring at them? Humans are perverts, and books written by bronze age nomads who thought the earth was the center of the universe, owned slaves, and thought killing children for talking back to their parents was a good idea have no place in modern morality. If two humans love each other and want to raise a family, it shouldn't matter what's in their pants.



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29 Jun 2011, 6:27 pm

Hear, hear.



cave_canem
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29 Jun 2011, 6:41 pm

^I second that



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30 Jun 2011, 4:34 pm

I don't think homophobia is caused by closeted gays. I believe the central cause of homophobia is a laziness to understand the subject and/or to explain that kind of stuff to your children. It's much easier for a lot of families to just call something you can't explain bad instead of explaining the complexities of developing feelings for someone who is of the same gender as you. This is why I hate the concept of "family values" in politics. It's a term you mostly hear by conservatives and their definition is for the government is to put a "black and white" on everything to save the parents from having to do most of the work of trying to make sense of it to their children. People like them make it harder for kids to access birth control because it's easier to enforce abstinence instead of explaining the alternatives and risks in detail. In this same manner, we have TV censorship.

If "family values" has any value to families, they would let individual families to deal with such issues themselves instead of forcing the government to do all the work of enforcing the same rules on all families. Real parenting is actually explaining things to your children instead of saying "just because" or "just dont do it".



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30 Jun 2011, 7:40 pm

raisedbyignorance wrote:
I don't think homophobia is caused by closeted gays. I believe the central cause of homophobia is a laziness to understand the subject and/or to explain that kind of stuff to your children. It's much easier for a lot of families to just call something you can't explain bad instead of explaining the complexities of developing feelings for someone who is of the same gender as you. This is why I hate the concept of "family values" in politics. It's a term you mostly hear by conservatives and their definition is for the government is to put a "black and white" on everything to save the parents from having to do most of the work of trying to make sense of it to their children. People like them make it harder for kids to access birth control because it's easier to enforce abstinence instead of explaining the alternatives and risks in detail. In this same manner, we have TV censorship.

If "family values" has any value to families, they would let individual families to deal with such issues themselves instead of forcing the government to do all the work of enforcing the same rules on all families. Real parenting is actually explaining things to your children instead of saying "just because" or "just dont do it".


And just think, when my six year old daughter is sixteen, I'll have to think of ways to explain why she shouldn't do something, rather than just saying, "because I said so."
As easy as saying "because I said so" is so much easier.
And if my daughter, when she's older, is attracted to the same sex, my wife and I will still love her just the same.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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30 Jun 2011, 10:10 pm

raisedbyignorance wrote:
I don't think homophobia is caused by closeted gays. I believe the central cause of homophobia is a laziness to understand the subject and/or to explain that kind of stuff to your children. It's much easier for a lot of families to just call something you can't explain bad instead of explaining the complexities of developing feelings for someone who is of the same gender as you.


I think that the most vocal and vehement homophobics are closeted gays.

I think that your typical, run of the mill anti-gay bigot might fall into the category you are describing.



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01 Jul 2011, 1:03 am

cave_canem wrote:

I think that the most vocal and vehement homophobics are closeted gays.



On what grounds? I am pretty sure the two most rabid racists I ever met - one New Zealand Scot, one Frenchman - were not closeted Persons of SubSaharan Ancestry. It has been suggested [I have quoted the suggestion myself, though I have little if any evidence that would support it] that the heaviest antitheists are afraid they might deep down believe in a divine entity.. That would be closer to the sexuality-fear hypothesis.

But on what do you base it? How would you test it?

And can one apply similar logic to suspect that the most actively acting out in the homosexual community fearthey may be latent heterosexuals?

Genuinely asking, here.