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Philologos
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19 Jul 2011, 6:33 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
QFS = quoted for stupid


Well, thankee for that.

90% of the Cable Code I just ignore, but curtiosity nibbles my guts.



WorldsEdge
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10 Aug 2011, 1:30 pm

Inuyasha wrote:


Not sure what QFS means, but to expand on Roman's remarks, the Constitution has its roots in Judeo-Christian values.

Anyways something interesting I ran across:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Were_any_of_t ... n_religion

If it wasn't for Jewish People we might not have had a country:


I might be mistaken, but IIRC the guy you're referring to was actually ineligible vote under the laws of New York, both pre- and post- Revolution. In addition to being owed a few bucks. Maybe if he'd lived past the ratification of the Constitution things might have changed, but probably not. After all, Connecticut had an "Established" church, supported by taxes until sometime in the 1820s.

And your claim of Judeo-Christian values as basic to the founding of the US need to be reconciled to what Thomas Jefferson wrote. Many times and in many ways. I think my personal favorite is the Book of Revelation as the "ravings of a maniac." And if you want more I'm pretty sure I can find them. John Adams, James Madison, Ethan Allen, etc. As best I recall, Washington said things one way sometimes, another way other times. Like he couldn't be bothered with it and didn't want to offend, or perhaps he did have some sort of inner conflict of faith. (I do know Madison did not want clergy in the Armed Forces, nor a chaplain for Congress.)

Going the other way, I'm pretty sure Patrick Henry was a solid Christian. Which is kind of funny since he spearheaded the campaign in Virginia AGAINST ratifying the Constitution, and I believe actually did drag religion in as a reason to oppose it, among others.

Anyway, Link: THOMAS JEFFERSON ON CHRISTIANITY & RELIGION

Quote:
The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, January 24, 1814


Quote:
Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814


Quote:
Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him [Jesus] by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, April 13, 1820


Quote:
It is between fifty and sixty years since I read it [the Apocalypse], and I then considered it merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to General Alexander Smyth, Jan. 17, 1825


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Tim_Tex
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10 Aug 2011, 1:47 pm

I think that Christians being "fellow Jews" would make more sense. I tend to see Jews, as well as Muslims, as parts of an "extended family", because all three religions have Abraham as a common ancestor.



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10 Aug 2011, 2:17 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
I think that Christians being "fellow Jews" would make more sense. I tend to see Jews, as well as Muslims, as parts of an "extended family", because all three religions have Abraham as a common ancestor.


While all three religions have common roots, I still don't see how a Christian could be considered a Muslim, or a Muslim a Jew, or yes, a Jew a Christian. Rather than trying to create non-existent associations beyond common origins, I think the emphasis should rather be on mutual respect for one another, despite differences.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



ruveyn
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10 Aug 2011, 8:03 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
I think that Christians being "fellow Jews" would make more sense. I tend to see Jews, as well as Muslims, as parts of an "extended family", because all three religions have Abraham as a common ancestor.


While all three religions have common roots, I still don't see how a Christian could be considered a Muslim, or a Muslim a Jew, or yes, a Jew a Christian. Rather than trying to create non-existent associations beyond common origins, I think the emphasis should rather be on mutual respect for one another, despite differences.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


All religions are equally true, equally false and equally foolish.

ruveyn



pandabear
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25 Aug 2011, 9:52 am

I recall Jerry Falwell claiming that the only Jews who got into Heaven, without converting to Christianity, were the characters of the Old Testament who were looking forward to the coming of Jesus. Jews who remained Jews after that were lost.

The idea of the "dual covenant" (i.e., one for Jews, who don't have to convert to Christianity, and another for Christians) seems rather new among the Fundies.



Philologos
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25 Aug 2011, 11:38 am

ruveyn wrote:

All religions are equally true, equally false and equally foolish.

ruveyn


It would help if you checked the data before saying such things. I would let you squeeze by if you had said "alike" rather than equally, allowing for your right to a squinched standpoint. But this is like my associate who tried to maintain all languages are of equal complexity.



Obres
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25 Aug 2011, 12:16 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
I think that Christians being "fellow Jews" would make more sense. I tend to see Jews, as well as Muslims, as parts of an "extended family", because all three religions have Abraham as a common ancestor.


While all three religions have common roots, I still don't see how a Christian could be considered a Muslim, or a Muslim a Jew, or yes, a Jew a Christian. Rather than trying to create non-existent associations beyond common origins, I think the emphasis should rather be on mutual respect for one another, despite differences.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


All religions are equally true, equally false and equally foolish.

ruveyn


For once we're in agreement



Kraichgauer
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25 Aug 2011, 3:29 pm

pandabear wrote:
I recall Jerry Falwell claiming that the only Jews who got into Heaven, without converting to Christianity, were the characters of the Old Testament who were looking forward to the coming of Jesus. Jews who remained Jews after that were lost.

The idea of the "dual covenant" (i.e., one for Jews, who don't have to convert to Christianity, and another for Christians) seems rather new among the Fundies.


Though I do recall he had said he would never try to convert "God's chosen people," as if attempting to bring them to Christ was an unnecessary insult.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



pandabear
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25 Aug 2011, 5:48 pm

According to Jerry

http://www.religioustolerance.org/falwell.htm

Quote:
"Who will the Antichrist be? I don't know. Nobody else knows. Is he alive and here today? Probably. Because when he appears during the Tribulation period he will be a full-grown counterfeit of Christ. Of course, he'll be Jewish. Of course, he'll pretend to be Christ. And if in fact the Lord is coming soon, and he'll [the Antichrist] be an adult at the presentation of himself, he must be alive somewhere today."


What a scheister, eh? :roll:



Kraichgauer
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25 Aug 2011, 8:31 pm

pandabear wrote:
According to Jerry

http://www.religioustolerance.org/falwell.htm

Quote:
"Who will the Antichrist be? I don't know. Nobody else knows. Is he alive and here today? Probably. Because when he appears during the Tribulation period he will be a full-grown counterfeit of Christ. Of course, he'll be Jewish. Of course, he'll pretend to be Christ. And if in fact the Lord is coming soon, and he'll [the Antichrist] be an adult at the presentation of himself, he must be alive somewhere today."


What a scheister, eh? :roll:


Or maybe, just maybe, the Anti-Christ was a reference to the Roman Emperor Nero, who had persecuted the early church.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer