I am officially distubed by the truth of U.S healthcare.

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Who said anything about poor people? Most middle-class families could not afford these types of routine care. You appear to be clueless about actual medical expenses. The average annual out-of-pocket expenses for an uninsured diabetic can easily exceed $20K. Asthma is around the $3K mark. Pregnancy is around $8K for low-risk and substantially higher for high-risk. Dialysis costs around $2500 initially and then about $500 each subsequent treatment which is usually needed about 3 times/week. How many middle-class families can afford $6000/month for dialysis?!

And, out of curiosity, how would you deal with poor people separately?

Why do you only apply your fallen nature argument to the government?

What valuable service to insurance companies provide for patients?

Could you cite one example of a working, free-market healthcare system?

There seem to be several examples of working socialized systems, but I've yet to see a true, free-market solution in operation. This leads me to my largest complaint with these arguments which is - it's all theory! Where's the working proof?

Dude in a free market system, there would no government intervention whatsoever in the economy....which would mean the insurance companies would certainly compete with each other but they would have no standards or rules to follow and would essentially be able to do whatever the hell they want...

and in that systeam what I am supposed to go around and tell hundreds of companies I don't trust about how badly I was treated and hope that maybe they give a crap? and that maybe one of them will overlook the AS and other 'pre-existing' mental conditions and give me coverage I can somehow afford oh which by the way would be none.

Also when did I say the government should run 'everything' hell they already run pleanty of public services.....how do you like those roads you drive on, having a fire-fighter team to come put a fire out should one strike your home, healthcare is something that I would argue the citizens of this country are entitled to. As it stands now our government is owned by corporate america...that is the freaking problem not the existance of the government itself.

Also out of curiosity what kind of healthcare treatment do you get? because maybe you're a little bit ignorant about the sort of situation many U.S citizens like me are in.

Look buddy, the argument that average middle-class American's would not be able to afford basic healthcare without insurance is completely bunk. They already do it. On average, your insurance company does not insure you at a loss. It is still you paying the bill (along with your insurance company's overhead). And anyways, if a medical procedure were truly bankrupting, then it would be surely be covered by insurance policies.

Instead of a forcing us all into a one-size-fits-all solution that does little to reduce the insane price of healthcare (a single payer could fandangle slightly lower prices through increased bargaining power, but it would still be third party payment), just let the government pay for only the people who can't afford the care they need. You know, like we do for food.

We do have programs where the government pays for healthcare people cannot afford it's called medicaid.....but that is if you get approved and its more likely to get approved if you are disabled or have kids. Its less likely if you are a 21 year old adult such as myself with no kids and no official disability. Also, even if you are approved its not like you have access to all the treatment you need or all the presciptions you need...it is not a very good system. Also there are many places that don't even accept medicaid.

I still think Universal Healthcare would be better.

Cool. That way humans can wait six months for an MRI scan, just like in Canada.

ruveyn

Well though according to many canadians they do not have to wait 6 months for such things, even if that is a fact. It's still better than not getting the MRI scan at all because you're too poor to afford it.

Also as I have said a few times in this thread I am open to other ideas besides Universal Healthcare, if someone really has a better idea.....but as it stands now I think Universal Healthcare is superior to the Insurance and Pharmacutical company ran system for the wealthy and upper class that leaves out much of the population.

Or more like under three weeks if you're classified as urgent and within 24 hours in the event of an emergency. You're corny as hell.

But didn't you get the memo? Americans are experts on Canadian healthcare. Surely you must be wrong.

lol I know right

I don't even know where to start with this silliness. Which part is bunk? Are Americans immune to illnesses like diabetes? Are you contesting the costs? Are you claiming medical bankruptcies are non-existent here? Are you seriously naive enough to think that the consumer's potential hardship due to claim denial even factors into the insurance companies decision process at all?

What do you mean insurance doesn't provide coverage at a loss? That's exactly what they are supposed to do should illness or injury occur. If you're covered and you get cancer or get pregnant, it's a sure thin that you claims will exceed your premiums, assuming insurance doesn't deny the claim - which they are not supposed to do. Same with all other insurance. Life, auto, home - if there's a loss insurance is supposed to cover that loss. You could have a million dollar life insurance policy and even if you die within a few years and only pay in a few thousand bucks, insurance still pays out the full million.

Where on earth have you been getting these ides from?

Yea, under a government run system the wealthy and upper class would not get preferential treatment. There certainly would never be any sort of corruption that would cause some to get better treatment than others because politicians are just so honest and truthful. And GE pays taxes just like every other business. <end sarcasm>

We all know damn well that under a government system, first the politician will write themselves in preferential treatment. Then preferential treatment will come for other government employees, then preferential treatment for political groups aligned to whoever is in power. And anyone willing to make a large enough campaign donation will be bumped to the front of the line.

Also what I always say to the dem who wants government run healthcare is, "do you want George Bush in charge of your health care?" To which they freak out and say he no longer president. But I point out that moods change over time, and eventually America will again elect a right wing christian fanatic to be president. And do you really want a right wing christian fanatic controlling your health care?

The difference in a currency based healthcare system is that even though those who are wealthy get better treatment you have the option to save up, pool money from your family, get assistance from charity, and buy your way to better care too. When the government runs healthcare, if you are politically opposed to those in power, nothing you can do will get you the care you need. Do you really think a christian led administration is going to give a dam about gays struggling with aids?

Not so. No matter how many customers the more honest competitor steals, the honest competitor cannot make the same profit without demanding higher premiums. Therefore insurance companies will be as dishonest as possible without violating the letter of the law. They compete by suckering people in with low premiums while not letting on to the consumer how they will be rationing and denying coverage. Insurance companies have no control over the cost of healthcare so the only way they can make a profit is to either 1.) jack up premiums or 2.) find ways to lower their payout by denying and rationing coverage. If a government run health insurance program has to ration care, at least it doesn't have an incentive to try and make money by hiding the fact.

But the government cannot control its costs. So it will eventually have to ration health care to prevent political blow back. It is either that or raise taxes. You guess what the government will do. We will end up like Britain with the National Health Care Program.

ruveyn

And why is that a bad thing? The UK system outperforms ours by every standard (quality, access, cost, efficiency, etc.). It's not like insurance never raise premiums. So what if taxes are raised, it would still cost us less out of pocket. Just think about how over half of our pharmaceutical industry's income goes towards marketing and promotion. Right there - that's at least a 50% savings. That's not even counting the multi-million dollar salaries and bonuses for individuals at the top of the chain.

Well one question who would be letting the government do all that? as it stands now Corporate America owns our government they are the ones paying the salaries of these government officials....what if the people that actually represent more than 1% of the population were paying their salaries. I think the real issue is people are not involved enough, people have become docile sheep who just go along with whatever the media tells them to....yeah we think we have freedom and on the surface we do but in reality we are being ruled by the few on top......they tell us what's cool, they tell us what we should listen to, what we should wear, how we should feel or provide distractions so that we can care more about reality shows than reality. The best way to opress people is to keep them ignorant. But anyways enough of my anti Corporate America rant.

Universal Health care alone would be an improvement probably, because for one people might have to acknowledge other people exist.......because it's no secret in such a system people would be paying taxes and the taxes would go to things like Universal Healthcare so thus everyone is helping everyone(oh how evil ) And if other people exist, and people communicate and if people realise many of them are facing the same problems every day and relate to each other then maybe they will get sick of what is going on and do something about it most individuals are afraid to deviate because they feel isolated so what is the point....but that's not what corporate america wants now is it and so far it seems they are suceeding.