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Things you dislike about your country.

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Sweetleaf
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05 Jun 2012, 10:02 pm

society, but maybe i am the nutcase and society isen't.


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marshall
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05 Jun 2012, 10:24 pm

ruveyn wrote:
AstroGeek wrote:
I've never like the whole "taxation is theft" simply for semantic reasons. Theft is when you take someone's property illegally. The government defines what is legal and what is not, so if it makes taxation legal then it can't really be theft. After all, property is not a fundamental concept--it is defined by the powers running society (ie: government) and as such that definition can be changed at will. That says nothing about whether or not taxation is morally right but I don't think that such a charged word is an accurate one in this situation.


Before there were ever laws there was theft. Taking that which someone else grew, gathered or made by force or by threat. The laws against theft followed the act of theft. Theft came first. Then the laws against theft. Legalizing theft does not change its nature. It is the forced transfer of assets either by outright violence and taking or by threat of such. It is the involuntary transfer of assets, possessions and in the abstract the absconding of opportunity. Legalizing nastiness does not make nastiness any less nasty for the victim.

ruveyn


Do you realize how nauseating it is to hear you constantly bitching about having to pay taxes day after day? Do you even know what real suffering is? Do you know what it is to be a real victim? :roll:

If you want to keep whining about how "nasty" and "unfair" paying taxes is then you have absolutely no grounds to criticize lefties who would say the same about private owners of capital using the desperation of workers to exploit profit from their labor.

TO ALL PROPONENTS OF RIGHT-WING LIBERTARIANISM AND MARKET FUNDAMENTALISTS. YOU ARE NOT "RATIONAL". YOU ARE NOT "OBJECTIVE". YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENT FROM MARXISTS. YOU ARE SIMPLY PONTIFICATING OVER A BUNCH OF RIGID ABSOLUTIST MORALISTIC BS THAT DOES NOT FUNCTION IN THE REAL WORLD. NOT ONLY THAT, THE MORALISTIC BS OF MARKET FUNDAMENTALISTS IS THAT OF AN OBNOXIOUS THREE YEAR OLD SCREECHING OVER "HIS" TOYS IN THE SANDBOX. MINE!! ! MINE!! ! MINE!! !



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05 Jun 2012, 10:42 pm

Marshall wrote:

Quote:
TO ALL PROPONENTS OF RIGHT-WING LIBERTARIANISM AND MARKET FUNDAMENTALISTS. YOU ARE NOT "RATIONAL". YOU ARE NOT "OBJECTIVE". YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENT FROM MARXISTS. YOU ARE SIMPLY PONTIFICATING OVER A BUNCH OF RIGID ABSOLUTIST MORALISTIC BS THAT DOES NOT FUNCTION IN THE REAL WORLD. NOT ONLY THAT, THE MORALISTIC BS OF MARKET FUNDAMENTALISTS IS THAT OF AN OBNOXIOUS THREE YEAR OLD SCREECHING OVER "HIS" TOYS IN THE SANDBOX. MINE!! ! MINE!! ! MINE!! !


Sounds like the rantings of thems that aint have.

Do you realize that this is a discussion forum and a discussion forum only and we are not deciding the fate of nations here?
Sometimes I really wonder............



Last edited by Raptor on 05 Jun 2012, 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

marshall
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05 Jun 2012, 10:42 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
AstroGeek wrote:
I've never like the whole "taxation is theft" simply for semantic reasons. Theft is when you take someone's property illegally. The government defines what is legal and what is not, so if it makes taxation legal then it can't really be theft. After all, property is not a fundamental concept--it is defined by the powers running society (ie: government) and as such that definition can be changed at will. That says nothing about whether or not taxation is morally right but I don't think that such a charged word is an accurate one in this situation.


Before there were ever laws there was theft. Taking that which someone else grew, gathered or made by force or by threat. The laws against theft followed the act of theft. Theft came first. Then the laws against theft. Legalizing theft does not change its nature. It is the forced transfer of assets either by outright violence and taking or by threat of such. It is the involuntary transfer of assets, possessions and in the abstract the absconding of opportunity. Legalizing nastiness does not make nastiness any less nasty for the victim.

ruveyn


That is very well written. Taxpayers are victims, taxes are theft, and laws are legalized nastiness. You could get a job writing political speeches.

If there were no taxes, then there would be no way of paying police, and no way of protecting you from illegal thieves. So, you might as well pony up, to avoid being imprisoned yourself, and to pay for protection from illegal thieves. Either that or stock up on guns and ammunition.


Progressive taxation is a feature of pretty much all modern mixed economies. If people want a society of perfect meritocracy some form of anarcho-syndicalism comes closer than anarcho-capitalism. Pure anarcho-syndicalism would not require any theft, err.. taxation. Hey, as long as we're no longer talking about the real world, we can talk about abolishing taxes. Anarcho-capitalists don't have a monopoly on silly meritocratic utopias.



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05 Jun 2012, 11:24 pm

Raptor wrote:
Marshall wrote:
Quote:
TO ALL PROPONENTS OF RIGHT-WING LIBERTARIANISM AND MARKET FUNDAMENTALISTS. YOU ARE NOT "RATIONAL". YOU ARE NOT "OBJECTIVE". YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENT FROM MARXISTS. YOU ARE SIMPLY PONTIFICATING OVER A BUNCH OF RIGID ABSOLUTIST MORALISTIC BS THAT DOES NOT FUNCTION IN THE REAL WORLD. NOT ONLY THAT, THE MORALISTIC BS OF MARKET FUNDAMENTALISTS IS THAT OF AN OBNOXIOUS THREE YEAR OLD SCREECHING OVER "HIS" TOYS IN THE SANDBOX. MINE!! ! MINE!! ! MINE!! !


Sounds like the rantings of thems that aint have.

Do you realize that this is a discussion forum and a discussion forum only and we are not deciding the fate of nations here?
Sometimes I really wonder............


I seriously doubt that Marshall is motivated by any so called class envy conservatives are fond of accusing those without of feeling. That charge of class warfare is leveled by the right when they don't want to address social inequities and greed by the haves.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



androbot2084
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06 Jun 2012, 12:14 am

It's the capitalists that are the thieves.



marshall
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06 Jun 2012, 12:14 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Marshall wrote:
Quote:
TO ALL PROPONENTS OF RIGHT-WING LIBERTARIANISM AND MARKET FUNDAMENTALISTS. YOU ARE NOT "RATIONAL". YOU ARE NOT "OBJECTIVE". YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENT FROM MARXISTS. YOU ARE SIMPLY PONTIFICATING OVER A BUNCH OF RIGID ABSOLUTIST MORALISTIC BS THAT DOES NOT FUNCTION IN THE REAL WORLD. NOT ONLY THAT, THE MORALISTIC BS OF MARKET FUNDAMENTALISTS IS THAT OF AN OBNOXIOUS THREE YEAR OLD SCREECHING OVER "HIS" TOYS IN THE SANDBOX. MINE!! ! MINE!! ! MINE!! !


Sounds like the rantings of thems that aint have.

Do you realize that this is a discussion forum and a discussion forum only and we are not deciding the fate of nations here?
Sometimes I really wonder............


I seriously doubt that Marshall is motivated by any so called class envy conservatives are fond of accusing those without of feeling. That charge of class warfare is leveled by the right when they don't want to address social inequities and greed by the haves.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I'm talking about how idiotic the broken record "taxation is theft" is. It's not an argument.

I'd also say it's not envy people feel, but fear. Fear that our country is going to go into decline due to the irrational and/or outright deceitful actions of the far-right. Things like claiming they are for balancing budgets while simultaneously pledging to cut taxes for the wealthy which will end up lowering revenue. It borders on absurdity.



androbot2084
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06 Jun 2012, 12:19 am

Isn't it theft to charge 30 percent interest?



Kraichgauer
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06 Jun 2012, 12:46 am

marshall wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Marshall wrote:
Quote:
TO ALL PROPONENTS OF RIGHT-WING LIBERTARIANISM AND MARKET FUNDAMENTALISTS. YOU ARE NOT "RATIONAL". YOU ARE NOT "OBJECTIVE". YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENT FROM MARXISTS. YOU ARE SIMPLY PONTIFICATING OVER A BUNCH OF RIGID ABSOLUTIST MORALISTIC BS THAT DOES NOT FUNCTION IN THE REAL WORLD. NOT ONLY THAT, THE MORALISTIC BS OF MARKET FUNDAMENTALISTS IS THAT OF AN OBNOXIOUS THREE YEAR OLD SCREECHING OVER "HIS" TOYS IN THE SANDBOX. MINE!! ! MINE!! ! MINE!! !


Sounds like the rantings of thems that aint have.

Do you realize that this is a discussion forum and a discussion forum only and we are not deciding the fate of nations here?
Sometimes I really wonder............


I seriously doubt that Marshall is motivated by any so called class envy conservatives are fond of accusing those without of feeling. That charge of class warfare is leveled by the right when they don't want to address social inequities and greed by the haves.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I'm talking about how idiotic the broken record "taxation is theft" is. It's not an argument.

I'd also say it's not envy people feel, but fear. Fear that our country is going to go into decline due to the irrational and/or outright deceitful actions of the far-right. Things like claiming they are for balancing budgets while simultaneously pledging to cut taxes for the wealthy which will end up lowering revenue. It borders on absurdity.


Oh, I know that you were talking about the "taxation is theft" mantra, but Raptor's comment of, "Sounds like the rantings of thems that aint have," was an accusation that you were envious of those who have.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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06 Jun 2012, 2:34 am

Credit checks, contracts, and being considered scum for having bad credit.


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edgewaters
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06 Jun 2012, 2:49 am

The way our prime minister spreads the cheeks and looks at something on the ground due north of where he's standing, so often.



Danimal
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06 Jun 2012, 2:54 am

What's not to like about America? Let's see:
1. Fast food drive throughs.
2. Getting so much food in a restaurant that you always need a doggy bag.
3. Gigantic big box stores.
4. So large that you never have to go abroad for vacations.
5. Who else has the Grand Canyon, Old Faithful, the Great Lakes, and a Petrified Forest?
6. Where else can grade B movie actors, peanut farmers, and community organizers become President?
7. What other country can crazy people demand to see the President's birth certificate?
8. Wendy's chili.
9. The Smithsonian is free.
10. Taco Bell. Enough said.
11. Guns, guns, guns. Where else can you go to gun shows that have enough weaponry to arm a small nation.
12. Microwaveable White Castle hamburgers.

America. Enjoy your stay.



Sweetleaf
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06 Jun 2012, 9:06 am

ruveyn wrote:
AstroGeek wrote:
I've never like the whole "taxation is theft" simply for semantic reasons. Theft is when you take someone's property illegally. The government defines what is legal and what is not, so if it makes taxation legal then it can't really be theft. After all, property is not a fundamental concept--it is defined by the powers running society (ie: government) and as such that definition can be changed at will. That says nothing about whether or not taxation is morally right but I don't think that such a charged word is an accurate one in this situation.


Before there were ever laws there was theft. Taking that which someone else grew, gathered or made by force or by threat. The laws against theft followed the act of theft. Theft came first. Then the laws against theft. Legalizing theft does not change its nature. It is the forced transfer of assets either by outright violence and taking or by threat of such. It is the involuntary transfer of assets, possessions and in the abstract the absconding of opportunity. Legalizing nastiness does not make nastiness any less nasty for the victim.

ruveyn


Oh you poor victim...the tax payers are all such poor victims having to pay taxes while still being able to afford shelter, food, drink, entertainment and clothes. Poor, poor things the taxpayers. How dare those rotton people in poverty think they are entitled to help from the government when they can not obtain these things due to lack of funds.......bastards.

just couldn't help myself :lol:


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Raptor
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06 Jun 2012, 9:15 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
marshall wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Marshall wrote:
Quote:
TO ALL PROPONENTS OF RIGHT-WING LIBERTARIANISM AND MARKET FUNDAMENTALISTS. YOU ARE NOT "RATIONAL". YOU ARE NOT "OBJECTIVE". YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENT FROM MARXISTS. YOU ARE SIMPLY PONTIFICATING OVER A BUNCH OF RIGID ABSOLUTIST MORALISTIC BS THAT DOES NOT FUNCTION IN THE REAL WORLD. NOT ONLY THAT, THE MORALISTIC BS OF MARKET FUNDAMENTALISTS IS THAT OF AN OBNOXIOUS THREE YEAR OLD SCREECHING OVER "HIS" TOYS IN THE SANDBOX. MINE!! ! MINE!! ! MINE!! !


Sounds like the rantings of thems that aint have.

Do you realize that this is a discussion forum and a discussion forum only and we are not deciding the fate of nations here?
Sometimes I really wonder............


I seriously doubt that Marshall is motivated by any so called class envy conservatives are fond of accusing those without of feeling. That charge of class warfare is leveled by the right when they don't want to address social inequities and greed by the haves.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I'm talking about how idiotic the broken record "taxation is theft" is. It's not an argument.

I'd also say it's not envy people feel, but fear. Fear that our country is going to go into decline due to the irrational and/or outright deceitful actions of the far-right. Things like claiming they are for balancing budgets while simultaneously pledging to cut taxes for the wealthy which will end up lowering revenue. It borders on absurdity.


Oh, I know that you were talking about the "taxation is theft" mantra, but Raptor's comment of, "Sounds like the rantings of thems that aint have," was an accusation that you were envious of those who have.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


If you'd read his reply you would've noticed that the "thems that aint have" jest had been answered.
:roll:



marshall
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06 Jun 2012, 9:15 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
marshall wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Marshall wrote:
Quote:
TO ALL PROPONENTS OF RIGHT-WING LIBERTARIANISM AND MARKET FUNDAMENTALISTS. YOU ARE NOT "RATIONAL". YOU ARE NOT "OBJECTIVE". YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENT FROM MARXISTS. YOU ARE SIMPLY PONTIFICATING OVER A BUNCH OF RIGID ABSOLUTIST MORALISTIC BS THAT DOES NOT FUNCTION IN THE REAL WORLD. NOT ONLY THAT, THE MORALISTIC BS OF MARKET FUNDAMENTALISTS IS THAT OF AN OBNOXIOUS THREE YEAR OLD SCREECHING OVER "HIS" TOYS IN THE SANDBOX. MINE!! ! MINE!! ! MINE!! !


Sounds like the rantings of thems that aint have.

Do you realize that this is a discussion forum and a discussion forum only and we are not deciding the fate of nations here?
Sometimes I really wonder............


I seriously doubt that Marshall is motivated by any so called class envy conservatives are fond of accusing those without of feeling. That charge of class warfare is leveled by the right when they don't want to address social inequities and greed by the haves.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I'm talking about how idiotic the broken record "taxation is theft" is. It's not an argument.

I'd also say it's not envy people feel, but fear. Fear that our country is going to go into decline due to the irrational and/or outright deceitful actions of the far-right. Things like claiming they are for balancing budgets while simultaneously pledging to cut taxes for the wealthy which will end up lowering revenue. It borders on absurdity.


Oh, I know that you were talking about the "taxation is theft" mantra, but Raptor's comment of, "Sounds like the rantings of thems that aint have," was an accusation that you were envious of those who have.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


People who are too dense to engage in real discussion must resort to personal accusations. Calling people who are legitimately fearful for their future "envious" is just a form of trolling.



Sweetleaf
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06 Jun 2012, 9:23 am

marshall wrote:

People who are too dense to engage in real discussion must resort to personal accusations. Calling people who are legitimately fearful for their future "envious" is just a form of trolling.


I don't see what the hell there is to be envious about anyways...I don't want the world for my self just the basics and the means to have some entertainment/enjoyment in life. I don't even expect to ever own a nice house and maybe not even a car let alone two cars like some people have. I don't know I don't see how wanting the means to survive indicates envy of those who have more. So I'd have to agree.


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