Pastor Barnhart explains right-wing anti-abortion politics.

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Sweetleaf
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12 May 2022, 2:59 pm

Pepe wrote:

Fnord wrote:

So where are all of you "Pro-Life" advocates now?
Why do you care about other people's children only before they are born?[/color]

I suspect pro-life representatives might also be supportive of family planning.

Not exactly. A lot of them oppose contraceptives as well.

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AngelRho
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12 May 2022, 3:06 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

Pepe wrote:

Fnord wrote:

So where are all of you "Pro-Life" advocates now?
Why do you care about other people's children only before they are born?[/color]

I suspect pro-life representatives might also be supportive of family planning.

Not exactly. A lot of them oppose contraceptives as well.

I have yet to see a rational argument against contraceptives.

kraftiekortie
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12 May 2022, 3:55 pm

Supposedly, contraceptives prevent life from being conceived. That is the position of those who oppose contraceptives.

The_Walrus
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12 May 2022, 4:13 pm

AngelRho wrote:

magz wrote:

AngelRho wrote:

You can't realistically or reasonably live your life if you have to worry about how your actions are going to impact someone's mental health. My, oh, my, what lawsuits I'd file if that were the case!

I find your words a symptom of living in a pretty toxic environment.
Of course protection of mental health is an important public health issue.

While I agree with you, an unreasonable concern for the mental health of everyone at the expense of one’s personal freedom is at least just as unhealthy. Suicidal people will ideate suicide. People who aren’t suicidal won’t. People who will hurt themselves don’t need an excuse and will do it regardless of whether they have the option to kill someone else.

Sure, but nobody is saying that you should get an abortion for the benefit of other people's mental health.

If you don't want an abortion, then you don't have to have one. But by the same token, you shouldn't seek to control other people's access to abortion.

Sweetleaf
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12 May 2022, 4:21 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

Supposedly, contraceptives prevent life from being conceived. That is the position of those who oppose contraceptives.

I have also heard some of them believe it causes an abortion.

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kraftiekortie
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12 May 2022, 4:22 pm

^Are they kidding? That doesn't make sense....

The_Walrus
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12 May 2022, 4:30 pm

I can see why someone who is opposed to abortion might be opposed to the morning-after pill, even though it is far from guaranteed that 1) fertilisation will occur, and 2) implantation will occur.

I do wonder if pro-life people mourne the deaths of zygotes that never implanted.

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12 May 2022, 4:40 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

^Are they kidding? That doesn't make sense....

I know, I guess the idea is if god intended the woman to get pregnant birth control aborts his plan or something, but doesn't make sense to me either.

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Tim_Tex
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12 May 2022, 4:46 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

Pepe wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

Have you heard of ectopic pregnancies where the fetus implants in the wrong place? The only treatment for that is abortion. If she is denied an abortion that is a death sentence....what does your morality say about that?

I would like "evidence" that it would happen.
It is inconceivable (pun intended) that a women would be left to die in such a situation.
It sounds like utter nonsense and I think you are hurting your argument, assuming you are incorrect.

Sorry to be so firm about my position, but as I said, something like you described is beyond *my* realm of reality.

Some anti abortion groups and people are calling for a full ban on abortion. I am not certain that it would actually occur.

Even in Texas abortions are allowed later than 6 weeks for situations like that, however it causes confusion as to when a doctor could perform it. Like in the case of ectopic pregnancies can the doctor perform an abortion once it's discovered or do they have to wait till her fallopian tube ruptures? The texas law is not clear on that.

https://www.thelily.com/the-texas-abortion-ban-has-a-medical-exception-but-some-doctors-worry-its-too-narrow-to-use/

Not 100% certain, but knowing Abbott, anything is possible.

Sadly, if the power grid disaster didn't wake people up, nothing will.

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Pepe
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12 May 2022, 5:47 pm

Fnord wrote:

ironpony wrote:

Why is there a baby formula shortage?

Google it.

Some formulas were recalled for safety issues.

The war in Ukraine is having a number of unexpected consequences that are affecting consumers around the world. With both Ukraine and Russia being two of the largest exporters of grains and fertilizer on the planet, supply chains are being choked, preventing the swift manufacture of many essential products.

Product supply challenges resulting from the COVID pandemic are currently impacting most of the retail industry.

Price-gouging by the oil industry is also raising transportation costs.[/color]

But how "essential" are they really?
Are there no other ways a baby can be fed nutritious food?
There was no "baby formula" in human history until very recently.
To a large degree, baby formulas are simply more convenient, isn't it, much like disposable nappies as opposed to cloth nappies are, I would have thought.

Also:

Quote:

What is an alternative to formula for babies?
Breastmilk, breastfeeding

Many families choose to use baby formula because they either need to supplement breastmilk, can't breastfeed, or prefer not to. But if your baby formula is now inaccessible, you can try receiving safe, pasteurized breastmilk from donation banks.

https://www.google.com/search?q=are+the ... nt=gws-wiz

BTW, Baby *oil* is not meant for internal consumption. :mrgreen:

Pepe
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12 May 2022, 6:03 pm

Fnord wrote:

Pepe wrote:

Fnord wrote:

So where are all of you "Pro-Life" advocates now?
Why do you care about other people's children only before they are born?[/color]

I suspect pro-life representatives might also be supportive of family planning.

It is difficult to engage in "Family Planning" once a baby is born.[/color]

Years ago, I read that a third of babies were the result of accidents.
Many of these "accidents" would have been through laziness, lack of appropriate protection, lack of planning, and a "cross fingers" approach.
Not having the ability to have an abortion would increase the probability of "due diligence", I would have thought.

Fnord wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

. . . there are people who are not compassionate when it comes to poverty. Some of these same people speak of the "rights" of the unborn child, and call themselves pro-life -- but they backtrack when it comes to helping people down on their luck who are live -- like babies whose mothers cannot afford formula.

Again, where are all the "Pro-Life" advocates now? Why do they not care about babies that have already been born?[/color]

Your assumption is rather black and white.
I doubt *all* Pro-Lifers would have no compassion for babies born already.
If they do value the sanctity of human life, their concerns would extend to babies already born, and all human life.

What would you have them do?
Isn't it up to the government to implement measures to increase aid for unwanted babies and poor families?
What is your current government doing?

Pepe
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12 May 2022, 6:06 pm

ironpony wrote:

Oh that's what I meant, will parlament inact them, since they will likely, if the US enacts them.

Ask them. <joke> :mrgreen:

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12 May 2022, 6:08 pm

Pepe wrote:

The whole argument was covered by my post on page one, it's concealed ad hominem and character assassination. It's only used by people who don't have the chops to actually argue about this topic.

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Pepe
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12 May 2022, 6:14 pm

auntblabby wrote:

Pepe wrote:

Fnord wrote:

So where are all of you "Pro-Life" advocates now?
Why do you care about other people's children only before they are born?[/color]

I suspect pro-life representatives might also be supportive of family planning.

not when the more stupidly vocal of them espouses the repeal of griswold vs. connecticut 1965.

Having a Pro-Life agenda would suggest a position that values life.
If this isn't the case, could you explain to me why they advocate this principle?
Where is the payoff for them?
Do they have shares in disposable nappy companies? <satire> :wink:

Pepe
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12 May 2022, 6:22 pm

Fireblossom wrote:

For those who think abortion is to be allowed if it puts a woman's life at a way higher risk than a pregnancy normally would but not otherwise: what about an unwanted pregnancy's effects on the woman's mental health? What if, being denied abortion, the woman gets suicidal? If there's a reason to doubt that a woman will kill herself due to the unwanted pregnancy, would it justify abortion? If there's a reason to doubt that she'd start doing risky stuff like falling down some stairs or jumping off a bridge on purpose in order to have her rights to her own body back, should abortion be allowed in your opinion?

I imagine this would be a relatively rare circumstance.
I'd be surprised if there wasn't a "case by case" evaluation procedure available.
No system is perfect, however, as we know.

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12 May 2022, 6:36 pm

magz wrote:

AngelRho wrote:

You can't realistically or reasonably live your life if you have to worry about how your actions are going to impact someone's mental health. My, oh, my, what lawsuits I'd file if that were the case!

I find your words a symptom of living in a pretty toxic environment.
Of course protection of mental health is an important public health issue.

Ammuuuria is known as "The Land of the Sue".
This is probably politically incorrect, but please don't sue me. :mrgreen:

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Pastor Barnhart explains right-wing anti-abortion politics.