To Woke, or not to Woke. Mr. Apu on the Simpsons.

Page 14 of 19 [ 290 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 ... 19  Next

cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

06 Sep 2022, 3:46 am

naturalplastic wrote:
There was a normal IQ actor on LA Law who was great as a ret*d character. And so on.


I think you mean't say a character with an intellectual disability. I'll give you one pass.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

06 Sep 2022, 3:49 am

ironpony wrote:
I understand that the symmetry is different technically, it's just that I feel that I cannot approve of the double standard, because even if people try to say there is a different symmetry, it still feels hypocritical of me, to disapprove of NT people having autistic roles, when I myself, have had the opportunity of being granted NT roles. I get that there may be a distinction but I feel I have to be a 100 percent, non- double standardish on this, because of my blessings, if that makes sense?

Another thing for me to consider is, there was a movie production that I auditioned for where I auditioned to play an autistic character. I thought I would be good for it since I am autistic as well. I did also mention this to the producers when auditioning. But I didn't get that part. Yet I have gotten these other NT parts. So I guess my attitude is fine, if you would rather cast me for NT parts, then I will take them. So I can't get mad therefore, if they cast NT actors in autistic parts, since they wouldn't cast me for an autistic part but will cast me for NT parts. But I guess that is the attitude I developed based on my experience if that makes sense.


There is no double standard. Actors who are dx with ASD and who are really top actors (Daryl Hannah, Dan Ackroyd or Anthony Hopkins) are obviously capable of masking their ASD. Actors who is dx but are unable to mask their autism are not going to get parts playing NTs,



ironpony
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Nov 2015
Age: 40
Posts: 5,590
Location: canada

06 Sep 2022, 4:59 pm

cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
I understand that the symmetry is different technically, it's just that I feel that I cannot approve of the double standard, because even if people try to say there is a different symmetry, it still feels hypocritical of me, to disapprove of NT people having autistic roles, when I myself, have had the opportunity of being granted NT roles. I get that there may be a distinction but I feel I have to be a 100 percent, non- double standardish on this, because of my blessings, if that makes sense?

Another thing for me to consider is, there was a movie production that I auditioned for where I auditioned to play an autistic character. I thought I would be good for it since I am autistic as well. I did also mention this to the producers when auditioning. But I didn't get that part. Yet I have gotten these other NT parts. So I guess my attitude is fine, if you would rather cast me for NT parts, then I will take them. So I can't get mad therefore, if they cast NT actors in autistic parts, since they wouldn't cast me for an autistic part but will cast me for NT parts. But I guess that is the attitude I developed based on my experience if that makes sense.


There is no double standard. Actors who are dx with ASD and who are really top actors (Daryl Hannah, Dan Ackroyd or Anthony Hopkins) are obviously capable of masking their ASD. Actors who is dx but are unable to mask their autism are not going to get parts playing NTs,


I see that point of it, but I guess I had no problem with studios choosing known actors since I realize that's the business of making money, is getting actors people know of and want to watch. I didn't have a problem with Dustin Hoffman playing an autistic character, because I cannot think of any famous autistic actors at the time, around his age that would have filled the part.

I didn't have a problem with Ben Affleck playing an autistic character a few years ago, because they wanted the character to be in shape, and I don't think people would have bought Dan Akroyd or Anthony Hopkins in that action hero type of role.

I understand that getting new unknown stars is good, but it's hard to get producers to want to gamble more with their money, and it's a paradox I guess?



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

06 Sep 2022, 5:13 pm

ironpony wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
I understand that the symmetry is different technically, it's just that I feel that I cannot approve of the double standard, because even if people try to say there is a different symmetry, it still feels hypocritical of me, to disapprove of NT people having autistic roles, when I myself, have had the opportunity of being granted NT roles. I get that there may be a distinction but I feel I have to be a 100 percent, non- double standardish on this, because of my blessings, if that makes sense?

Another thing for me to consider is, there was a movie production that I auditioned for where I auditioned to play an autistic character. I thought I would be good for it since I am autistic as well. I did also mention this to the producers when auditioning. But I didn't get that part. Yet I have gotten these other NT parts. So I guess my attitude is fine, if you would rather cast me for NT parts, then I will take them. So I can't get mad therefore, if they cast NT actors in autistic parts, since they wouldn't cast me for an autistic part but will cast me for NT parts. But I guess that is the attitude I developed based on my experience if that makes sense.


There is no double standard. Actors who are dx with ASD and who are really top actors (Daryl Hannah, Dan Ackroyd or Anthony Hopkins) are obviously capable of masking their ASD. Actors who is dx but are unable to mask their autism are not going to get parts playing NTs,


I see that point of it, but I guess I had no problem with studios choosing known actors since I realize that's the business of making money, is getting actors people know of and want to watch. I didn't have a problem with Dustin Hoffman playing an autistic character, because I cannot think of any famous autistic actors at the time, around his age that would have filled the part.

I didn't have a problem with Ben Affleck playing an autistic character a few years ago, because they wanted the character to be in shape, and I don't think people would have bought Dan Akroyd or Anthony Hopkins in that action hero type of role.

I understand that getting new unknown stars is good, but it's hard to get producers to want to gamble more with their money, and it's a paradox I guess?


In the current paradigm it's the market place that dictates what sells. If casting is done and from the available pool of talent the actor chosen can pull it off in rehearsal then that's all that matters.



ironpony
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Nov 2015
Age: 40
Posts: 5,590
Location: canada

06 Sep 2022, 5:18 pm

That makes sense.

Another thing about this movement in which they only want things like gay actors to play gay characters, and say autistic actors to play autistic characters, is that this movement I feel is problematic in the sense, that when someone applies for a job, it's considered unprofessional to ask that person if they are gay, autistic, etc.

Like for example, if I was directing and producing movie, and an actor came to audition to play a gay character, there is no way I would ask someone applying if they were gay or not, and whether or not they get the job, depends on their sexual orientation, as I feel that would be hugely unprofessional of me. Unless I am looking at it the wrong way?



KimD
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 May 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 585

06 Sep 2022, 5:29 pm

Quote:
I understand that the symmetry is different technically, it's just that I feel that I cannot approve of the double standard, because even if people try to say there is a different symmetry, it still feels hypocritical of me, to disapprove of NT people having autistic roles, when I myself, have had the opportunity of being granted NT roles. I get that there may be because of my blessings, if that makes sense?


I second what Cyberdad said above, and also want to add: I think one of the main points is for more people to make a more deliberate effort to be more inclusive. It's not a 1:1 equation, but something for people to be more mindful of, rather than plugging whomever the casting director wants just because they have whatever superficial quality they're craving. The word has seen enough poor and even outrageously bad portrayals of minorities or "fringe" folks by people who could've gotten any job they wanted elsewhere...and probably should have, especially when there was someone with more talent and genuine experience to back up their work, but no one even bothered to ask or look. That's the difference, to me.

I do, however, think it's funny how a British/UK accent used to be the American director's stand-in for any European language--and even Russian! (Sir Sean Connery was an awesome sight, but c'mon--he didn't fool AnYoNe in "The Hunt for Red October"!) :lol:



KimD
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 May 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 585

06 Sep 2022, 5:31 pm

ironpony wrote:
That makes sense.

Another thing about this movement in which they only want things like gay actors to play gay characters, and say autistic actors to play autistic characters, is that this movement I feel is problematic in the sense, that when someone applies for a job, it's considered unprofessional to ask that person if they are gay, autistic, etc.

Like for example, if I was directing and producing movie, and an actor came to audition to play a gay character, there is no way I would ask someone applying if they were gay or not, and whether or not they get the job, depends on their sexual orientation, as I feel that would be hugely unprofessional of me. Unless I am looking at it the wrong way?


I think it would come down to people who are already known as ___________, and/or self-disclosure, though heaven knows Hollywood doesn't play by the same rules the rest of us do!



ironpony
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Nov 2015
Age: 40
Posts: 5,590
Location: canada

06 Sep 2022, 5:37 pm

KimD wrote:
ironpony wrote:
That makes sense.

Another thing about this movement in which they only want things like gay actors to play gay characters, and say autistic actors to play autistic characters, is that this movement I feel is problematic in the sense, that when someone applies for a job, it's considered unprofessional to ask that person if they are gay, autistic, etc.

Like for example, if I was directing and producing movie, and an actor came to audition to play a gay character, there is no way I would ask someone applying if they were gay or not, and whether or not they get the job, depends on their sexual orientation, as I feel that would be hugely unprofessional of me. Unless I am looking at it the wrong way?


I think it would come down to people who are already known as ___________, and/or self-disclosure, though heaven knows Hollywood doesn't play by the same rules the rest of us do!


It could be self-disclosure, but what if say a good amount of gay actors came out later to the public saying that they were not comfortable divulging this personal information but felt that they were forced to by Hollywood in order to get certain roles. Would there be backlash then?



KimD
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 May 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 585

06 Sep 2022, 5:43 pm

ironpony wrote:
KimD wrote:
ironpony wrote:
That makes sense.

Another thing about this movement in which they only want things like gay actors to play gay characters, and say autistic actors to play autistic characters, is that this movement I feel is problematic in the sense, that when someone applies for a job, it's considered unprofessional to ask that person if they are gay, autistic, etc.

Like for example, if I was directing and producing movie, and an actor came to audition to play a gay character, there is no way I would ask someone applying if they were gay or not, and whether or not they get the job, depends on their sexual orientation, as I feel that would be hugely unprofessional of me. Unless I am looking at it the wrong way?


I think it would come down to people who are already known as ___________, and/or self-disclosure, though heaven knows Hollywood doesn't play by the same rules the rest of us do!


It could be self-disclosure, but what if say a good amount of gay actors came out later to the public saying that they were not comfortable divulging this personal information but felt that they were forced to by Hollywood in order to get certain roles. Would there be backlash then?


I think the Screen Actors Guild would have some say in that.



ironpony
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Nov 2015
Age: 40
Posts: 5,590
Location: canada

06 Sep 2022, 11:30 pm

What would they say about it?



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

07 Sep 2022, 2:49 am

ironpony wrote:
Like for example, if I was directing and producing movie, and an actor came to audition to play a gay character, there is no way I would ask someone applying if they were gay or not, and whether or not they get the job, depends on their sexual orientation, as I feel that would be hugely unprofessional of me. Unless I am looking at it the wrong way?


Hmmm, That's an interesting one. I guess it wouldn't matter if they could get through casting but here's the thing, is it appropriate for a straight person doing the casting to gauge if an actor is acting "gay"?



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 70
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,189
Location: temperate zone

07 Sep 2022, 9:43 am

cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Like for example, if I was directing and producing movie, and an actor came to audition to play a gay character, there is no way I would ask someone applying if they were gay or not, and whether or not they get the job, depends on their sexual orientation, as I feel that would be hugely unprofessional of me. Unless I am looking at it the wrong way?


Hmmm, That's an interesting one. I guess it wouldn't matter if they could get through casting but here's the thing, is it appropriate for a straight person doing the casting to gauge if an actor is acting "gay"?


The job of the casting director is to judge whether the actor can convey "gayness" to a mostly straight paying audience.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

07 Sep 2022, 5:06 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Like for example, if I was directing and producing movie, and an actor came to audition to play a gay character, there is no way I would ask someone applying if they were gay or not, and whether or not they get the job, depends on their sexual orientation, as I feel that would be hugely unprofessional of me. Unless I am looking at it the wrong way?


Hmmm, That's an interesting one. I guess it wouldn't matter if they could get through casting but here's the thing, is it appropriate for a straight person doing the casting to gauge if an actor is acting "gay"?


The job of the casting director is to judge whether the actor can convey "gayness" to a mostly straight paying audience.


Like in the old minstrel shows



Dox47
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,670
Location: Seattle-ish

07 Sep 2022, 6:35 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Like in the old minstrel shows


Um, no. Minstrelry was never intended to accurately portray black characters, it used exaggerated stereotypes to make fun of them, it's not remotely similar to a straight person playing a gay character. Ironically, you could argue that drag shows have something in common with minstrel shows, using exaggerated caricatures of femininity for comic effect, but I doubt that's a conversation you want to have.


_________________
Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer.

- Rick Sanchez


ironpony
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Nov 2015
Age: 40
Posts: 5,590
Location: canada

07 Sep 2022, 9:59 pm

cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Like for example, if I was directing and producing movie, and an actor came to audition to play a gay character, there is no way I would ask someone applying if they were gay or not, and whether or not they get the job, depends on their sexual orientation, as I feel that would be hugely unprofessional of me. Unless I am looking at it the wrong way?


Hmmm, That's an interesting one. I guess it wouldn't matter if they could get through casting but here's the thing, is it appropriate for a straight person doing the casting to gauge if an actor is acting "gay"?


Oh what do you mean by that exactly?



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 70
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,189
Location: temperate zone

07 Sep 2022, 11:12 pm

cyberdad wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Like for example, if I was directing and producing movie, and an actor came to audition to play a gay character, there is no way I would ask someone applying if they were gay or not, and whether or not they get the job, depends on their sexual orientation, as I feel that would be hugely unprofessional of me. Unless I am looking at it the wrong way?


Hmmm, That's an interesting one. I guess it wouldn't matter if they could get through casting but here's the thing, is it appropriate for a straight person doing the casting to gauge if an actor is acting "gay"?


The job of the casting director is to judge whether the actor can convey "gayness" to a mostly straight paying audience.


Like in the old minstrel shows


Well...to varying degrees...yes. Show business IS "business". Scientific accuracy is not the goal of modern Hollywood anymore than it was of PT Barnum. So though depictions of gays may not be quite as bad as the way the old minstrel shows portrayed Blacks it maybe just as pandering to current stereotypes as that. Gays were essentially never even mentioned in movies in the Fifties. From the Sixties onward the public has gradually evolved a more nuanced and accepting view of homosexuals over the decades. So Hollywood depictions of the group have gotten gradually closer to reality...in order to sell tickets to the gradually more discerning public...over that time period.