To Woke, or not to Woke. Mr. Apu on the Simpsons.
ironpony wrote:
I understand that the symmetry is different technically, it's just that I feel that I cannot approve of the double standard, because even if people try to say there is a different symmetry, it still feels hypocritical of me, to disapprove of NT people having autistic roles, when I myself, have had the opportunity of being granted NT roles. I get that there may be a distinction but I feel I have to be a 100 percent, non- double standardish on this, because of my blessings, if that makes sense?
Another thing for me to consider is, there was a movie production that I auditioned for where I auditioned to play an autistic character. I thought I would be good for it since I am autistic as well. I did also mention this to the producers when auditioning. But I didn't get that part. Yet I have gotten these other NT parts. So I guess my attitude is fine, if you would rather cast me for NT parts, then I will take them. So I can't get mad therefore, if they cast NT actors in autistic parts, since they wouldn't cast me for an autistic part but will cast me for NT parts. But I guess that is the attitude I developed based on my experience if that makes sense.
Another thing for me to consider is, there was a movie production that I auditioned for where I auditioned to play an autistic character. I thought I would be good for it since I am autistic as well. I did also mention this to the producers when auditioning. But I didn't get that part. Yet I have gotten these other NT parts. So I guess my attitude is fine, if you would rather cast me for NT parts, then I will take them. So I can't get mad therefore, if they cast NT actors in autistic parts, since they wouldn't cast me for an autistic part but will cast me for NT parts. But I guess that is the attitude I developed based on my experience if that makes sense.
There is no double standard. Actors who are dx with ASD and who are really top actors (Daryl Hannah, Dan Ackroyd or Anthony Hopkins) are obviously capable of masking their ASD. Actors who is dx but are unable to mask their autism are not going to get parts playing NTs,
cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
I understand that the symmetry is different technically, it's just that I feel that I cannot approve of the double standard, because even if people try to say there is a different symmetry, it still feels hypocritical of me, to disapprove of NT people having autistic roles, when I myself, have had the opportunity of being granted NT roles. I get that there may be a distinction but I feel I have to be a 100 percent, non- double standardish on this, because of my blessings, if that makes sense?
Another thing for me to consider is, there was a movie production that I auditioned for where I auditioned to play an autistic character. I thought I would be good for it since I am autistic as well. I did also mention this to the producers when auditioning. But I didn't get that part. Yet I have gotten these other NT parts. So I guess my attitude is fine, if you would rather cast me for NT parts, then I will take them. So I can't get mad therefore, if they cast NT actors in autistic parts, since they wouldn't cast me for an autistic part but will cast me for NT parts. But I guess that is the attitude I developed based on my experience if that makes sense.
Another thing for me to consider is, there was a movie production that I auditioned for where I auditioned to play an autistic character. I thought I would be good for it since I am autistic as well. I did also mention this to the producers when auditioning. But I didn't get that part. Yet I have gotten these other NT parts. So I guess my attitude is fine, if you would rather cast me for NT parts, then I will take them. So I can't get mad therefore, if they cast NT actors in autistic parts, since they wouldn't cast me for an autistic part but will cast me for NT parts. But I guess that is the attitude I developed based on my experience if that makes sense.
There is no double standard. Actors who are dx with ASD and who are really top actors (Daryl Hannah, Dan Ackroyd or Anthony Hopkins) are obviously capable of masking their ASD. Actors who is dx but are unable to mask their autism are not going to get parts playing NTs,
I see that point of it, but I guess I had no problem with studios choosing known actors since I realize that's the business of making money, is getting actors people know of and want to watch. I didn't have a problem with Dustin Hoffman playing an autistic character, because I cannot think of any famous autistic actors at the time, around his age that would have filled the part.
I didn't have a problem with Ben Affleck playing an autistic character a few years ago, because they wanted the character to be in shape, and I don't think people would have bought Dan Akroyd or Anthony Hopkins in that action hero type of role.
I understand that getting new unknown stars is good, but it's hard to get producers to want to gamble more with their money, and it's a paradox I guess?
ironpony wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
I understand that the symmetry is different technically, it's just that I feel that I cannot approve of the double standard, because even if people try to say there is a different symmetry, it still feels hypocritical of me, to disapprove of NT people having autistic roles, when I myself, have had the opportunity of being granted NT roles. I get that there may be a distinction but I feel I have to be a 100 percent, non- double standardish on this, because of my blessings, if that makes sense?
Another thing for me to consider is, there was a movie production that I auditioned for where I auditioned to play an autistic character. I thought I would be good for it since I am autistic as well. I did also mention this to the producers when auditioning. But I didn't get that part. Yet I have gotten these other NT parts. So I guess my attitude is fine, if you would rather cast me for NT parts, then I will take them. So I can't get mad therefore, if they cast NT actors in autistic parts, since they wouldn't cast me for an autistic part but will cast me for NT parts. But I guess that is the attitude I developed based on my experience if that makes sense.
Another thing for me to consider is, there was a movie production that I auditioned for where I auditioned to play an autistic character. I thought I would be good for it since I am autistic as well. I did also mention this to the producers when auditioning. But I didn't get that part. Yet I have gotten these other NT parts. So I guess my attitude is fine, if you would rather cast me for NT parts, then I will take them. So I can't get mad therefore, if they cast NT actors in autistic parts, since they wouldn't cast me for an autistic part but will cast me for NT parts. But I guess that is the attitude I developed based on my experience if that makes sense.
There is no double standard. Actors who are dx with ASD and who are really top actors (Daryl Hannah, Dan Ackroyd or Anthony Hopkins) are obviously capable of masking their ASD. Actors who is dx but are unable to mask their autism are not going to get parts playing NTs,
I see that point of it, but I guess I had no problem with studios choosing known actors since I realize that's the business of making money, is getting actors people know of and want to watch. I didn't have a problem with Dustin Hoffman playing an autistic character, because I cannot think of any famous autistic actors at the time, around his age that would have filled the part.
I didn't have a problem with Ben Affleck playing an autistic character a few years ago, because they wanted the character to be in shape, and I don't think people would have bought Dan Akroyd or Anthony Hopkins in that action hero type of role.
I understand that getting new unknown stars is good, but it's hard to get producers to want to gamble more with their money, and it's a paradox I guess?
In the current paradigm it's the market place that dictates what sells. If casting is done and from the available pool of talent the actor chosen can pull it off in rehearsal then that's all that matters.
That makes sense.
Another thing about this movement in which they only want things like gay actors to play gay characters, and say autistic actors to play autistic characters, is that this movement I feel is problematic in the sense, that when someone applies for a job, it's considered unprofessional to ask that person if they are gay, autistic, etc.
Like for example, if I was directing and producing movie, and an actor came to audition to play a gay character, there is no way I would ask someone applying if they were gay or not, and whether or not they get the job, depends on their sexual orientation, as I feel that would be hugely unprofessional of me. Unless I am looking at it the wrong way?
Quote:
I understand that the symmetry is different technically, it's just that I feel that I cannot approve of the double standard, because even if people try to say there is a different symmetry, it still feels hypocritical of me, to disapprove of NT people having autistic roles, when I myself, have had the opportunity of being granted NT roles. I get that there may be because of my blessings, if that makes sense?
I second what Cyberdad said above, and also want to add: I think one of the main points is for more people to make a more deliberate effort to be more inclusive. It's not a 1:1 equation, but something for people to be more mindful of, rather than plugging whomever the casting director wants just because they have whatever superficial quality they're craving. The word has seen enough poor and even outrageously bad portrayals of minorities or "fringe" folks by people who could've gotten any job they wanted elsewhere...and probably should have, especially when there was someone with more talent and genuine experience to back up their work, but no one even bothered to ask or look. That's the difference, to me.
I do, however, think it's funny how a British/UK accent used to be the American director's stand-in for any European language--and even Russian! (Sir Sean Connery was an awesome sight, but c'mon--he didn't fool AnYoNe in "The Hunt for Red October"!)

ironpony wrote:
That makes sense.
Another thing about this movement in which they only want things like gay actors to play gay characters, and say autistic actors to play autistic characters, is that this movement I feel is problematic in the sense, that when someone applies for a job, it's considered unprofessional to ask that person if they are gay, autistic, etc.
Like for example, if I was directing and producing movie, and an actor came to audition to play a gay character, there is no way I would ask someone applying if they were gay or not, and whether or not they get the job, depends on their sexual orientation, as I feel that would be hugely unprofessional of me. Unless I am looking at it the wrong way?
Another thing about this movement in which they only want things like gay actors to play gay characters, and say autistic actors to play autistic characters, is that this movement I feel is problematic in the sense, that when someone applies for a job, it's considered unprofessional to ask that person if they are gay, autistic, etc.
Like for example, if I was directing and producing movie, and an actor came to audition to play a gay character, there is no way I would ask someone applying if they were gay or not, and whether or not they get the job, depends on their sexual orientation, as I feel that would be hugely unprofessional of me. Unless I am looking at it the wrong way?
I think it would come down to people who are already known as ___________, and/or self-disclosure, though heaven knows Hollywood doesn't play by the same rules the rest of us do!
KimD wrote:
ironpony wrote:
That makes sense.
Another thing about this movement in which they only want things like gay actors to play gay characters, and say autistic actors to play autistic characters, is that this movement I feel is problematic in the sense, that when someone applies for a job, it's considered unprofessional to ask that person if they are gay, autistic, etc.
Like for example, if I was directing and producing movie, and an actor came to audition to play a gay character, there is no way I would ask someone applying if they were gay or not, and whether or not they get the job, depends on their sexual orientation, as I feel that would be hugely unprofessional of me. Unless I am looking at it the wrong way?
Another thing about this movement in which they only want things like gay actors to play gay characters, and say autistic actors to play autistic characters, is that this movement I feel is problematic in the sense, that when someone applies for a job, it's considered unprofessional to ask that person if they are gay, autistic, etc.
Like for example, if I was directing and producing movie, and an actor came to audition to play a gay character, there is no way I would ask someone applying if they were gay or not, and whether or not they get the job, depends on their sexual orientation, as I feel that would be hugely unprofessional of me. Unless I am looking at it the wrong way?
I think it would come down to people who are already known as ___________, and/or self-disclosure, though heaven knows Hollywood doesn't play by the same rules the rest of us do!
It could be self-disclosure, but what if say a good amount of gay actors came out later to the public saying that they were not comfortable divulging this personal information but felt that they were forced to by Hollywood in order to get certain roles. Would there be backlash then?
ironpony wrote:
KimD wrote:
ironpony wrote:
That makes sense.
Another thing about this movement in which they only want things like gay actors to play gay characters, and say autistic actors to play autistic characters, is that this movement I feel is problematic in the sense, that when someone applies for a job, it's considered unprofessional to ask that person if they are gay, autistic, etc.
Like for example, if I was directing and producing movie, and an actor came to audition to play a gay character, there is no way I would ask someone applying if they were gay or not, and whether or not they get the job, depends on their sexual orientation, as I feel that would be hugely unprofessional of me. Unless I am looking at it the wrong way?
Another thing about this movement in which they only want things like gay actors to play gay characters, and say autistic actors to play autistic characters, is that this movement I feel is problematic in the sense, that when someone applies for a job, it's considered unprofessional to ask that person if they are gay, autistic, etc.
Like for example, if I was directing and producing movie, and an actor came to audition to play a gay character, there is no way I would ask someone applying if they were gay or not, and whether or not they get the job, depends on their sexual orientation, as I feel that would be hugely unprofessional of me. Unless I am looking at it the wrong way?
I think it would come down to people who are already known as ___________, and/or self-disclosure, though heaven knows Hollywood doesn't play by the same rules the rest of us do!
It could be self-disclosure, but what if say a good amount of gay actors came out later to the public saying that they were not comfortable divulging this personal information but felt that they were forced to by Hollywood in order to get certain roles. Would there be backlash then?
I think the Screen Actors Guild would have some say in that.
ironpony wrote:
Like for example, if I was directing and producing movie, and an actor came to audition to play a gay character, there is no way I would ask someone applying if they were gay or not, and whether or not they get the job, depends on their sexual orientation, as I feel that would be hugely unprofessional of me. Unless I am looking at it the wrong way?
Hmmm, That's an interesting one. I guess it wouldn't matter if they could get through casting but here's the thing, is it appropriate for a straight person doing the casting to gauge if an actor is acting "gay"?
cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Like for example, if I was directing and producing movie, and an actor came to audition to play a gay character, there is no way I would ask someone applying if they were gay or not, and whether or not they get the job, depends on their sexual orientation, as I feel that would be hugely unprofessional of me. Unless I am looking at it the wrong way?
Hmmm, That's an interesting one. I guess it wouldn't matter if they could get through casting but here's the thing, is it appropriate for a straight person doing the casting to gauge if an actor is acting "gay"?
The job of the casting director is to judge whether the actor can convey "gayness" to a mostly straight paying audience.
naturalplastic wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Like for example, if I was directing and producing movie, and an actor came to audition to play a gay character, there is no way I would ask someone applying if they were gay or not, and whether or not they get the job, depends on their sexual orientation, as I feel that would be hugely unprofessional of me. Unless I am looking at it the wrong way?
Hmmm, That's an interesting one. I guess it wouldn't matter if they could get through casting but here's the thing, is it appropriate for a straight person doing the casting to gauge if an actor is acting "gay"?
The job of the casting director is to judge whether the actor can convey "gayness" to a mostly straight paying audience.
Like in the old minstrel shows
cyberdad wrote:
Like in the old minstrel shows
Um, no. Minstrelry was never intended to accurately portray black characters, it used exaggerated stereotypes to make fun of them, it's not remotely similar to a straight person playing a gay character. Ironically, you could argue that drag shows have something in common with minstrel shows, using exaggerated caricatures of femininity for comic effect, but I doubt that's a conversation you want to have.
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cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Like for example, if I was directing and producing movie, and an actor came to audition to play a gay character, there is no way I would ask someone applying if they were gay or not, and whether or not they get the job, depends on their sexual orientation, as I feel that would be hugely unprofessional of me. Unless I am looking at it the wrong way?
Hmmm, That's an interesting one. I guess it wouldn't matter if they could get through casting but here's the thing, is it appropriate for a straight person doing the casting to gauge if an actor is acting "gay"?
Oh what do you mean by that exactly?
cyberdad wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Like for example, if I was directing and producing movie, and an actor came to audition to play a gay character, there is no way I would ask someone applying if they were gay or not, and whether or not they get the job, depends on their sexual orientation, as I feel that would be hugely unprofessional of me. Unless I am looking at it the wrong way?
Hmmm, That's an interesting one. I guess it wouldn't matter if they could get through casting but here's the thing, is it appropriate for a straight person doing the casting to gauge if an actor is acting "gay"?
The job of the casting director is to judge whether the actor can convey "gayness" to a mostly straight paying audience.
Like in the old minstrel shows
Well...to varying degrees...yes. Show business IS "business". Scientific accuracy is not the goal of modern Hollywood anymore than it was of PT Barnum. So though depictions of gays may not be quite as bad as the way the old minstrel shows portrayed Blacks it maybe just as pandering to current stereotypes as that. Gays were essentially never even mentioned in movies in the Fifties. From the Sixties onward the public has gradually evolved a more nuanced and accepting view of homosexuals over the decades. So Hollywood depictions of the group have gotten gradually closer to reality...in order to sell tickets to the gradually more discerning public...over that time period.