How can anyone with AS be a conservative?
Ruveyn wrote:
Agreed, but the rich are at least a necessity because of their money to fund the work of the “grunts”. It’s a fact of life in a capitalist society. But I’ll take that will all of its pitfalls over the collective workers’ paradise some here seem to embrace.
Kraichgauer wrote:

I don’t know where the F this notion came from. I must live in more of a shell than I thought because none of the conservatives I know hold this belief. We typically have too much self-respect to revere any class of people based on one attribute.
Kraichgauer
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Posts: 49,246
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
Agreed, but the rich are at least a necessity because of their money to fund the work of the “grunts”. It’s a fact of life in a capitalist society. But I’ll take that will all of its pitfalls over the collective workers’ paradise some here seem to embrace.
Kraichgauer wrote:

I don’t know where the F this notion came from. I must live in more of a shell than I thought because none of the conservatives I know hold this belief. We typically have too much self-respect to revere any class of people based on one attribute.
It's being spouted on Fox, and by governors like Perry, Walker, and Scott.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Agreed, but the rich are at least a necessity because of their money to fund the work of the “grunts”. It’s a fact of life in a capitalist society. But I’ll take that will all of its pitfalls over the collective workers’ paradise some here seem to embrace.
Kraichgauer wrote:

I don’t know where the F this notion came from. I must live in more of a shell than I thought because none of the conservatives I know hold this belief. We typically have too much self-respect to revere any class of people based on one attribute.
It's being spouted on Fox, and by governors like Perry, Walker, and Scott.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
That's one way to get sizable campain contributions but I wouldnt say it reflects the values of conservatives in general......
Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,246
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
Agreed, but the rich are at least a necessity because of their money to fund the work of the “grunts”. It’s a fact of life in a capitalist society. But I’ll take that will all of its pitfalls over the collective workers’ paradise some here seem to embrace.
Kraichgauer wrote:

I don’t know where the F this notion came from. I must live in more of a shell than I thought because none of the conservatives I know hold this belief. We typically have too much self-respect to revere any class of people based on one attribute.
It's being spouted on Fox, and by governors like Perry, Walker, and Scott.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
That's one way to get sizable campain contributions but I wouldnt say it reflects the values of conservatives in general......
Are you sure it isn't part of a conservative socio-political philosophy?
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Success is meaningless without the possibility of failure.
You are missing the point. The -real- work in this country is done by the grunts: engineers, technicians, muscular laborer who move stuff and get dirty, drivers, divers, climbers etc. etc. The -suits- very often do nothing to earn their rather large pay checks. They manipulate symbols and do very little to add to the stock of -real- capital (nuts and bolts) or provide real value, like the food we eat. There are two classes: grunts and suits. The grunts are the true creators of our prosperity and our wealth. The suits very often do little of productive worth and mostly get in the way of the grunts.
Every now and again a grunt gets a real good idea and a load and starts a productive business. When the business starts to run on its own that enterpriser becomes a suit. He ceases to create and begins to manage. What the managers and manipulators ought to do is take time off from their pursuits of little value and do some -real- work that transforms the world and makes our lives better and more prosperous. Guys who cobble together derivatives and tranches produce no wealth whatsoever. People who profit from arbitrage produce no wealth whatsoever but they do, rather often, become rich. Such is the system we live under.
ruveyn
You're starting to sound like a closet "Liberal."
True "Conservatives" aren't supposed to entertain such thoughts.
Success is meaningless without the possibility of failure.
You are missing the point. The -real- work in this country is done by the grunts: engineers, technicians, muscular laborer who move stuff and get dirty, drivers, divers, climbers etc. etc. The -suits- very often do nothing to earn their rather large pay checks. They manipulate symbols and do very little to add to the stock of -real- capital (nuts and bolts) or provide real value, like the food we eat. There are two classes: grunts and suits. The grunts are the true creators of our prosperity and our wealth. The suits very often do little of productive worth and mostly get in the way of the grunts.
Every now and again a grunt gets a real good idea and a load and starts a productive business. When the business starts to run on its own that enterpriser becomes a suit. He ceases to create and begins to manage. What the managers and manipulators ought to do is take time off from their pursuits of little value and do some -real- work that transforms the world and makes our lives better and more prosperous. Guys who cobble together derivatives and tranches produce no wealth whatsoever. People who profit from arbitrage produce no wealth whatsoever but they do, rather often, become rich. Such is the system we live under.
ruveyn
You're starting to sound like a closet "Liberal."
True "Conservatives" aren't supposed to entertain such thoughts.

He's referring to working for things, he's not referring to stealing from people.
Kraichgauer
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,246
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
Success is meaningless without the possibility of failure.
You are missing the point. The -real- work in this country is done by the grunts: engineers, technicians, muscular laborer who move stuff and get dirty, drivers, divers, climbers etc. etc. The -suits- very often do nothing to earn their rather large pay checks. They manipulate symbols and do very little to add to the stock of -real- capital (nuts and bolts) or provide real value, like the food we eat. There are two classes: grunts and suits. The grunts are the true creators of our prosperity and our wealth. The suits very often do little of productive worth and mostly get in the way of the grunts.
Every now and again a grunt gets a real good idea and a load and starts a productive business. When the business starts to run on its own that enterpriser becomes a suit. He ceases to create and begins to manage. What the managers and manipulators ought to do is take time off from their pursuits of little value and do some -real- work that transforms the world and makes our lives better and more prosperous. Guys who cobble together derivatives and tranches produce no wealth whatsoever. People who profit from arbitrage produce no wealth whatsoever but they do, rather often, become rich. Such is the system we live under.
ruveyn
You're starting to sound like a closet "Liberal."
True "Conservatives" aren't supposed to entertain such thoughts.

He's referring to working for things, he's not referring to stealing from people.
Who's advocating stealing? We're only saying that the rich should pay the most in taxes simply because they have the most wealth. Plus, they should be willing to give back to the country that made their riches possible.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Success is meaningless without the possibility of failure.
You are missing the point. The -real- work in this country is done by the grunts: engineers, technicians, muscular laborer who move stuff and get dirty, drivers, divers, climbers etc. etc. The -suits- very often do nothing to earn their rather large pay checks. They manipulate symbols and do very little to add to the stock of -real- capital (nuts and bolts) or provide real value, like the food we eat. There are two classes: grunts and suits. The grunts are the true creators of our prosperity and our wealth. The suits very often do little of productive worth and mostly get in the way of the grunts.
Every now and again a grunt gets a real good idea and a load and starts a productive business. When the business starts to run on its own that enterpriser becomes a suit. He ceases to create and begins to manage. What the managers and manipulators ought to do is take time off from their pursuits of little value and do some -real- work that transforms the world and makes our lives better and more prosperous. Guys who cobble together derivatives and tranches produce no wealth whatsoever. People who profit from arbitrage produce no wealth whatsoever but they do, rather often, become rich. Such is the system we live under.
ruveyn
You're starting to sound like a closet "Liberal."
True "Conservatives" aren't supposed to entertain such thoughts.

He's referring to working for things, he's not referring to stealing from people.
Who's advocating stealing? We're only saying that the rich should pay the most in taxes simply because they have the most wealth. Plus, they should be willing to give back to the country that made their riches possible.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
If a rich guy wants to give more to the country, he can choose to donate money to the Federal Government.
At what point do you consider it to be stealing and no longer taxation 60%, 70%, 80%, 100%? Hey they don't need the wealth cause they already have money. Do you realize you are advocating wrecking the economy. We need more jobs, not trying to bankrupt job creators.
Kraichgauer
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,246
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
Success is meaningless without the possibility of failure.
You are missing the point. The -real- work in this country is done by the grunts: engineers, technicians, muscular laborer who move stuff and get dirty, drivers, divers, climbers etc. etc. The -suits- very often do nothing to earn their rather large pay checks. They manipulate symbols and do very little to add to the stock of -real- capital (nuts and bolts) or provide real value, like the food we eat. There are two classes: grunts and suits. The grunts are the true creators of our prosperity and our wealth. The suits very often do little of productive worth and mostly get in the way of the grunts.
Every now and again a grunt gets a real good idea and a load and starts a productive business. When the business starts to run on its own that enterpriser becomes a suit. He ceases to create and begins to manage. What the managers and manipulators ought to do is take time off from their pursuits of little value and do some -real- work that transforms the world and makes our lives better and more prosperous. Guys who cobble together derivatives and tranches produce no wealth whatsoever. People who profit from arbitrage produce no wealth whatsoever but they do, rather often, become rich. Such is the system we live under.
ruveyn
You're starting to sound like a closet "Liberal."
True "Conservatives" aren't supposed to entertain such thoughts.

He's referring to working for things, he's not referring to stealing from people.
Who's advocating stealing? We're only saying that the rich should pay the most in taxes simply because they have the most wealth. Plus, they should be willing to give back to the country that made their riches possible.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
If a rich guy wants to give more to the country, he can choose to donate money to the Federal Government.
At what point do you consider it to be stealing and no longer taxation 60%, 70%, 80%, 100%? Hey they don't need the wealth cause they already have money. Do you realize you are advocating wrecking the economy. We need more jobs, not trying to bankrupt job creators.
No one is talking about wrecking the economy. The tax hike Obama calls for is hardly going to put anyone out of business. Warren Buffet just recently came out and said that raising taxes on the rich is hardly going to torpedo the economy, because the nation had done just fine with those tax rates under Clinton.
Funny taxation is considered theft only when you're talking about the rich.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Success is meaningless without the possibility of failure.
You are missing the point. The -real- work in this country is done by the grunts: engineers, technicians, muscular laborer who move stuff and get dirty, drivers, divers, climbers etc. etc. The -suits- very often do nothing to earn their rather large pay checks. They manipulate symbols and do very little to add to the stock of -real- capital (nuts and bolts) or provide real value, like the food we eat. There are two classes: grunts and suits. The grunts are the true creators of our prosperity and our wealth. The suits very often do little of productive worth and mostly get in the way of the grunts.
Every now and again a grunt gets a real good idea and a load and starts a productive business. When the business starts to run on its own that enterpriser becomes a suit. He ceases to create and begins to manage. What the managers and manipulators ought to do is take time off from their pursuits of little value and do some -real- work that transforms the world and makes our lives better and more prosperous. Guys who cobble together derivatives and tranches produce no wealth whatsoever. People who profit from arbitrage produce no wealth whatsoever but they do, rather often, become rich. Such is the system we live under.
ruveyn
You're starting to sound like a closet "Liberal."
True "Conservatives" aren't supposed to entertain such thoughts.

He's referring to working for things, he's not referring to stealing from people.
Who's advocating stealing? We're only saying that the rich should pay the most in taxes simply because they have the most wealth. Plus, they should be willing to give back to the country that made their riches possible.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
If a rich guy wants to give more to the country, he can choose to donate money to the Federal Government.
At what point do you consider it to be stealing and no longer taxation 60%, 70%, 80%, 100%? Hey they don't need the wealth cause they already have money. Do you realize you are advocating wrecking the economy. We need more jobs, not trying to bankrupt job creators.
No one is talking about wrecking the economy. The tax hike Obama calls for is hardly going to put anyone out of business. Warren Buffet just recently came out and said that raising taxes on the rich is hardly going to torpedo the economy, because the nation had done just fine with those tax rates under Clinton.
Funny taxation is considered theft only when you're talking about the rich.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
If Buffet want's to give the government more money, he can always donate money to the government, he doesn't have to force tax hikes on everyone else.
Speaking of which did you know Mr. Warren Buffett won't be affected by these tax hikes that he is proposing.
Wall Street has two beefs with Obama's latest tax-the-rich tirade. For one, many wonder why, if the President is so emphatic about repealing the Bush tax cuts, as he announced on Wednesday, did he agree to extend them less than six months ago when most investors had already factored in a tax increase?
Then there is the President's curious fascination with Warren Buffett, not exactly Mr. Popularity on Wall Street these days. Although Obama is an Ivy-educated citizen of the world, and president of the most powerful nation on earth, one has to wonder: Is Warren Buffett the only successful American the President knows?
"I don't need another tax cut, Warren Buffett doesn't need another tax cut," the President proudly professed to the American people.
But let's examine why that statement is so unnerving to investors hoping to see their lawmakers engage in an honest budget debate. For starters, Warren Buffett undoubtedly files one of the most unique tax returns in America, replete with tens of millions in capital gains and virtually no earned income. Judging from his tax returns in recent years, Buffett "earns" about $500,000 in salary and fees as a corporate director, but cashes out tens of millions more in capital gains and dividends stemming from his $45 billion dollar stake in Berkshire Hathaway.
As such, he pays about 17 percent of his "income" in taxes. To be sure, this rate is low, especially compared with the millions of Americans who are paying twice as much (35 percent) with virtually no deductions.
The bulk of these so-called "rich" Americans earn less than $500,000 a year before taxes, and hardly qualify as "rich" in Buffett terms, merely quite comfortable. These Americans proudly paid their taxes this week, a task that, in states like New York, means nearly 50 percent of their earned income goes to the government.
So it only adds insult to injury that President Obama, rather than praising these hard-working tax-payers, demonizes them by lumping them in with the Buffett types -- billionaires who clip (bond) coupons and rake in the capital gains at a much lower 15 percent rate.
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/b ... z1VAJCh0iX
Sure he's more than willing that you hike taxes on other people.
Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,246
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
Well how about that. I guess it's true that even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and again.
You are right that merely increasing marginal tax rates on personal income is not the best way to do things, since wealthy investors will continue to rake in the cash through no actual work. This is why we should get rid of the tax advantages granted to "capital gains" income and treat all income as regular income.
_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Riiightt.....
He's advocating you hike taxes on him, but the tax hikes actually won't affect him at all, and Warren Buffett is your star rich guy whom is advocating for tax hikes. Sorry, but your entire case just collapsed. All we're seeing is some guy telling you to hike taxes on everyone else but him.
Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,246
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Riiightt.....
He's advocating you hike taxes on him, but the tax hikes actually won't affect him at all, and Warren Buffett is your star rich guy whom is advocating for tax hikes. Sorry, but your entire case just collapsed. All we're seeing is some guy telling you to hike taxes on everyone else but him.
Still doesn't mean he's not right.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Riiightt.....
He's advocating you hike taxes on him, but the tax hikes actually won't affect him at all, and Warren Buffett is your star rich guy whom is advocating for tax hikes. Sorry, but your entire case just collapsed. All we're seeing is some guy telling you to hike taxes on everyone else but him.
Still doesn't mean he's not right.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
No, in all reality your case has no credibility because you were claiming rich people were asking for their taxes to be raised, and I just proved your star example won't even be effected.
You are right that merely increasing marginal tax rates on personal income is not the best way to do things, since wealthy investors will continue to rake in the cash through no actual work. This is why we should get rid of the tax advantages granted to "capital gains" income and treat all income as regular income.
While this may affect some rich people (as well as anyone else in the stock market, retirees, etc.), this might not affect Warren Buffett, because if I recall his "capital gains" are through a rather unusual means so they aren't taxed. So this might not affect him either.
Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,246
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.