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Bloody Sunday!

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LKL
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14 Jun 2012, 12:54 pm

Tequila wrote:
LKL wrote:
orth end of that Island's occupation, rebellion, and subsequent peace.


It's still "occupied" after 200 years and going strong!

didn't mean to imply that I thought that the rebellion won.



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14 Jun 2012, 12:56 pm

Joker wrote:
LKL wrote:
Joker wrote:
Seeing how I am Native American descant they will not target me.

*snort*
dude, make up your mind. Are you Irish-American, or Cherokee? If the one, you can't claim that you'll be spared in the coming retaliatory wave of ethnic cleansing by the formerly oppressed Native Americans (/sarcasm); if the latter, you lack even the thinnest thread of connection to north end of that Island's occupation, rebellion, and subsequent peace.

edit:
a joke from the time of the troubles:
An Irish man is driving through Northern Ireland late one night when he's stopped abruptly by a makeshift roadblock and his car is surrounded by men with flashlights and guns. One of the men comes to the window, and asks,
'Are you Catholic or Protestant?'
The man thinks for a moment, and says, 'I'm an atheist.'
The man at the window goes back to his pals for a moment and has a discussion, and then comes back to the car window.
'Well,' he asks, 'Are you a Catholic atheist, or a Protestant atheist?'



I'm German Irish of cherokee descent on my fathers side :wink:

Yeah, you're doomed, you descendant of the opressors!



Joker
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14 Jun 2012, 12:57 pm

LKL wrote:
Joker wrote:
LKL wrote:
Joker wrote:
Seeing how I am Native American descant they will not target me.

*snort*
dude, make up your mind. Are you Irish-American, or Cherokee? If the one, you can't claim that you'll be spared in the coming retaliatory wave of ethnic cleansing by the formerly oppressed Native Americans (/sarcasm); if the latter, you lack even the thinnest thread of connection to north end of that Island's occupation, rebellion, and subsequent peace.

edit:
a joke from the time of the troubles:
An Irish man is driving through Northern Ireland late one night when he's stopped abruptly by a makeshift roadblock and his car is surrounded by men with flashlights and guns. One of the men comes to the window, and asks,
'Are you Catholic or Protestant?'
The man thinks for a moment, and says, 'I'm an atheist.'
The man at the window goes back to his pals for a moment and has a discussion, and then comes back to the car window.
'Well,' he asks, 'Are you a Catholic atheist, or a Protestant atheist?'



I'm German Irish of cherokee descent on my fathers side :wink:

Yeah, you're doomed, you descendant of the opressors!


Cool



visagrunt
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14 Jun 2012, 1:26 pm

Joker wrote:
And how do you know that?


For a few reasons.

First, there was the active policy of the Stuart monarchs, in particular, to settle Ireland with Scottish settlers. Somewhat more than 100,000 Scottish settlers were transplanted to Ireland during the 17th century, a century during which the native Irish population fell to aopproximately 500,000 by the time of Cromwell's death.

Second, anthropometric studies have demonstrated the admixture of British populations (most likely garissoned soldiers) and successive displacements westward of existing populations as newer waves of immigration have taken place.


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14 Jun 2012, 1:32 pm

visagrunt wrote:
Joker wrote:
And how do you know that?


For a few reasons.

First, there was the active policy of the Stuart monarchs, in particular, to settle Ireland with Scottish settlers. Somewhat more than 100,000 Scottish settlers were transplanted to Ireland during the 17th century, a century during which the native Irish population fell to aopproximately 500,000 by the time of Cromwell's death.

Second, anthropometric studies have demonstrated the admixture of British populations (most likely garissoned soldiers) and successive displacements westward of existing populations as newer waves of immigration have taken place.


And then?



Mummy_of_Peanut
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14 Jun 2012, 2:36 pm

Joker wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
Joker wrote:
And how do you know that?


For a few reasons.

First, there was the active policy of the Stuart monarchs, in particular, to settle Ireland with Scottish settlers. Somewhat more than 100,000 Scottish settlers were transplanted to Ireland during the 17th century, a century during which the native Irish population fell to aopproximately 500,000 by the time of Cromwell's death.

Second, anthropometric studies have demonstrated the admixture of British populations (most likely garissoned soldiers) and successive displacements westward of existing populations as newer waves of immigration have taken place.


And then?
Didn't you read my last post? We are the same people. There has been so much genetic mixing between the populations of Ireland and the UK (in particular Scotland) that we are indistinguishable. Prior to the Anglo Saxons and Danes, we were all the same (Britons). If you saw me, you'd think I was a colleen and I'm only 1/8 Irish, as far as recent ancestry is concerned.


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Tequila
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14 Jun 2012, 2:39 pm

Mummy_of_Peanut wrote:
If you saw me, you'd think I was a colleen and I'm only 1/8 Irish, as far as recent ancestry is concerned.


Indeed - an Irishman in Ireland can only tell if someone is from England (or Scotland) when they open their mouths.



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14 Jun 2012, 2:40 pm

Mummy_of_Peanut wrote:
Joker wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
Joker wrote:
And how do you know that?


For a few reasons.

First, there was the active policy of the Stuart monarchs, in particular, to settle Ireland with Scottish settlers. Somewhat more than 100,000 Scottish settlers were transplanted to Ireland during the 17th century, a century during which the native Irish population fell to aopproximately 500,000 by the time of Cromwell's death.

Second, anthropometric studies have demonstrated the admixture of British populations (most likely garissoned soldiers) and successive displacements westward of existing populations as newer waves of immigration have taken place.


And then?
Didn't you read my last post? We are the same people. There has been so much genetic mixing between the populations of Ireland and the UK (in particular Scotland) that we are indistinguishable. Prior to the Anglo Saxons and Danes, we were all the same (Britons). If you saw me, you'd think I was a colleen and I'm only 1/8 Irish, as far as recent ancestry is concerned.


I did read your post I have tried letting this thread die but everyone keeps bringing me back to it. I love Scottland btw such a beautiful country just like Ireland our accsents are diffrent though.



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14 Jun 2012, 3:55 pm

I've found English, Irish, Scottish, German, and Dutch in my ancestry. I was really hoping to find a surprise like Chinese or something, but I'm just all kinds of white (as far back as I can tell, anyway, and assuming all the offspring belonged to their mothers' husbands).



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14 Jun 2012, 6:06 pm

New Worlders from the Yukon to Tierra del Fuego are largely (with the exception of native peoples who remain largely isolated) of mixed ancestry, and for some reason we seem to be sensitive about it; if humans are like every other species on the planet (and in this, we are), it is a great strength, not a weakness.



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14 Jun 2012, 6:09 pm

The best reason for a united Ireland is strictly economiclly



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14 Jun 2012, 8:59 pm

Joker wrote:
The best reason for a united Ireland is strictly economiclly


Explain, please.


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DC
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15 Jun 2012, 4:30 pm

Joker wrote:
You do no the British started it right?


Joker wrote:
^^^ The British did that to the Irish for 800 years.



Joker, what insane version of history are you making up to sustain this twisted world of yours?

800 years ago Ireland was invaded from England by THE NORMANS.

These being the same Normans that invaded a nice peaceful England in 1066 and carried out a campaign of extermination that was not seen again in the world until Genghis Khan.

Ever heard of the Harrying of the North?

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From the Humber to the Tees, William's men burnt whole villages and slaughtered the inhabitants. Foodstores and livestock were destroyed so that anyone surviving the initial massacre would succumb to starvation over the winter. The land was salted to destroy its productivity for decades forward. The survivors were reduced to cannibalism. Even some who were usually in support of William and the Normans were horrified by his actions.

The King stopped at nothing to hunt his enemies. He cut down many people and destroyed homes and land. Nowhere else had he shown such cruelty. This made a real change. To his shame, William made no effort to control his fury, punishing the innocent with the guilty. He ordered that crops and herds, tools and food be burned to ashes. More than 100,000 people perished of hunger. I have often praised William in this book, but I can say nothing good about this brutal slaughter. God will punish him.
—Orderic Vitalis, 11th century



If you are pissed off about the behaviour of the Normans in Ireland, where the hell is your sympathy for what the Normans did to the English who suffered a fate 100 times worse than either the Welsh or the Irish at their hands?


Or does reality not factor into to your convenient little hateful bubble?



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15 Jun 2012, 4:56 pm

The Normans were the ruling class in England after 1066 - they were English insofar as they lived there, reigned there, had children there, and died there.
If the Normans had invaded Ireland from France, that would have made it a French invasion.
Most scientists agree that human life started in Africa. Does that mean every war is Africans versus Africans?



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15 Jun 2012, 5:44 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
The Normans were the ruling class in England after 1066 - they were English insofar as they lived there, reigned there, had children there, and died there.
If the Normans had invaded Ireland from France, that would have made it a French invasion.
Most scientists agree that human life started in Africa. Does that mean every war is Africans versus Africans?


So, it was the French bombing Britain in WWII because the Germans had conquered northern France therefore Nazi troops on ex-french soil had to be classed as French?

If you read any history, the periods are broken up into the themes like the Mongol invasions, or the Roman invasions, just because Julius Caesar invaded Britain from the Gallic coast after the Romans had conquered Gaul doesn't mean history remembers it as the Gallic invasion of Britain.

It was the Roman invasion of Britain because it was the Romans doing the empire building at the time, conquering, settling ruling and expanding as they went along.

In exactly the same way, the invasion and fall of England, led to the invasion and fall of Wales and then the invasion of Ireland, all by the Normans because it was the Normans doing the empire building.



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16 Jun 2012, 7:33 am

Quote:
So, it was the French bombing Britain in WWII because the Germans had conquered northern France therefore Nazi troops on ex-french soil had to be classed as French?


Perhaps, if the Nazis had been ruling France for generations. At some point, one has to consider the Normans in England to be part of that society.




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If you read any history


that's condescending