Are the Muslims really the biggest threat . . .

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Fnord
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15 Sep 2012, 11:10 am

rpcarnell wrote:

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How could any religion be a threat when it is based on the hallucinatory ramblings of a man who was a pedophile, a polygamist, and a womanizer?

Then Mormonism is a threat as well, not just Islam, and we don't know enough about Jesus (we know more about Buddha, and he appeared centuries before Christianity did) to figure out what he was or what he wasn't.

Actually, I was thinking of Scientology ...

marshall
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15 Sep 2012, 2:31 pm

Pileo wrote:

Lack of education is the worlds enemy right now. When you take away schools, religious indoctrination takes its place. It doesn't matter which religion it is. When someone is indoctrinated with religion, they have no education to give them direction and when that happens, people get killed. I shouldn't have to go into great detail about the importance of a quality education and schooling.

Now, I'm not saying religion is bad. In the hands of someone who is educated and who is taught tolerance, religion can be a beautiful thing. But in the hands of someone who doesn't know how babies are made?

The leaders aren't uneducated but they derive their support from the poor and uneducated. They are however anti-intellectual / anti-science just as the religious-right is in Western countries. Chauvinism, paternalism, and hierarchical authoritarianism are the common threads in all right-wing ideologies including Islamism. It's all the same s**t, just in a different package.

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15 Sep 2012, 2:43 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Tequila wrote:

Pileo wrote:

Most Islamic terrorists aren't exactly poor, uneducated people.

For example, Mohamed Atta was the son of a well off Egyptian family and a university student in Germany. He was one of the leading participants in the outrage of 9/11. Most of the "martyrs" are from upper class families.

Really poor Muslims are too busy trying to get the next meal for their families.

ruveyn

Believe it or not, a lot of Muslim extremists are deeply involved in charity for the poor as well as "fighting the infidels". Religions always look for inroads where the broader society fails to take care of people adequately. This is why they tend to be right-wing, opposing secular alternatives to solving hardship and social injustices. Always helps to have an "enemy" to rile people up against as well.

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15 Sep 2012, 3:35 pm

Tequila wrote:

Pileo wrote:

Most Islamic terrorists aren't exactly poor, uneducated people.

Did I mention Islamic terrorists? Op's question asked about Muslim's in general.

Most people in Islamic countries right now have only basic schools with no hope of a higher education and most of those people are not Islamic terrorists. They are, however, make easy pawns for Islamic terrorists. Note the attacks on the embassies (link). To quote the article, "Al Jazeera's Hoda Abdel Hamid, reporting from Benghazi, said: "There is a lot of tension in Benghazi people are confused, they want to protest, but after what took at the US consulate, people are apprehensive, Libyan authorities still believe it was a planned attack at the embassy"." It should be noted that a group of Libyans defended the American embassy in Egypt (images of people pulling Christoper Stevens out of the rubble are Libyan's and they sent him to the hospital rightwards where he was declared deceased) and in Libya, thousands of people gathered to offer their condoleances to the American people (link to images). Then right afterwards, there's an attack on the American embassy in Libya? Stinks of careful planning.

marshall wrote:

Pileo wrote:

Exactly. To make matters worse, our educational system is continuously getting its funding cut by, guess who, the extremely religious. Our population is getting dumber and what do you know? They're turning to religion for answers.

This only fuels the Christian/Jew vs Muslim War we're currently facing. Before anyone says, "Good." Take a look at al-Qaeda's strategy (link). It's working. Say what you want about Bin Laden, he wasn't an idiot and he knew how plan.

Hopper
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16 Sep 2012, 7:11 am

They're irrational. They hate our freedom. They want to bring our civilisation down. They're hypersensitive about criticism. They don't understand or appreciate democracy. They're fundamentalists of an intrinsically violent religion.

Quote:

At least eight women have died in a Nato air strike in Afghanistan's eastern province of Laghman, local officials say.

Nato has conceded that between five and eight civilians died as it targeted insurgents, and offered condolences.

Link

There really is not a handclap slow enough.

That's NATO there. Made up of countries with democratically accountable governments.

Tequila
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16 Sep 2012, 7:15 am

Hopper wrote:

There really is not a handclap slow enough.

That's NATO there. Made up of countries with democratically accountable governments.

Would the Taliban be better then?

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16 Sep 2012, 7:17 am

Tequila wrote:

Hopper wrote:

There really is not a handclap slow enough.

That's NATO there. Made up of countries with democratically accountable governments.

Would the Taliban be better then?

Are you serious? You think that's my point? And you really think NATO are, what, the armed wing of Amnesty International?

Tequila
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16 Sep 2012, 7:19 am

Hopper wrote:

Are you serious? You think that's my point? And you really think NATO are, what, the armed wing of Amnesty International?

My point is that we often hear condemnation over NATO attacks to try to kill terrorists that unfortunately went wrong by the (far) left, but when massacres carried out by Muslim terrorist organisations like the Taliban - one of the most barbaric regimes in modern history - are carried out they often go silent.

Hopper
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16 Sep 2012, 7:31 am

Tequila wrote:

Hopper wrote:

Are you serious? You think that's my point? And you really think NATO are, what, the armed wing of Amnesty International?

My point is that we often hear condemnation over NATO attacks gone wrong by the (far) left, but when massacres carried out by Muslim terrorist organisations like the Taliban are carried out they often go silent.

Well, for the record, I think the Taliban are a shower of murderous bastards. I also think what happened is inevitable - not least because it happens so often - and that people aren't less dead because of how they were killed.

f**k it - in a perverse and f****d up way, there is more respect from the Taliban for human life than NATO. At least when they take life, they do it sincerely and seriously. What do we get from NATO? 'Condolences' and 'collateral damage', trying to weasel their way out of what they've done.

My further point is that to suppose what Muslim attacks there are, to suppose they're just very touchy about a pissy film etc, have nothing to do with this sort of thing is offensively absurd.

ETA re condemnation. A few Muslims autonomously decide to do a bad thing. Every member of that faith is expected to humbly apologise, explain it's not representative but a perversion of Islam, etc. The armed forces of democratically elected governments, voluntary soldiers under orders that carry out said governments' foreign policy, do a bad thing - is every eligible voter expected to apologise?

Last edited by Hopper on 16 Sep 2012, 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

NoPast
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16 Sep 2012, 7:43 am

No

the US and israel are

Tequila
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16 Sep 2012, 7:52 am

Hopper wrote:

ETA re condemnation. A few Muslims autonomously decide to do a bad thing. Every member of that faith is expected to humbly apologise, explain it's not representative but a perversion of Islam, etc. The armed forces of democratically elected governments, voluntary soldiers under orders that carry out said governments' foreign policy, do a bad thing - is every eligible voter expected to apologise?

It isn't just a few Muslims who think like that though is it? Islam is pickled in intolerance and extremism, even in Britain and across the Muslim world. In fact, it tends to be the minority who aren't.

Do you think people should be prosecuted or killed for leaving a religion?

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16 Sep 2012, 8:06 am

please some actual sources on that tequila, most muslims i meet are perfectly fine people,

as i said beofre i have seen far more extremnism and rotten ideology on wp than i perosnally have with muslims in the real world.

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16 Sep 2012, 8:07 am

Oodain wrote:

please some actual sources on that tequila, most muslims i meet are perfectly fine people.

Fine.

http://my.telegraph.co.uk/danielpycock/ ... of-the-uk/

0% (0 in 500) tolerance rate for homosexuals among British Muslims polled.

It ain't looking too good, is it?

Last edited by Tequila on 16 Sep 2012, 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tequila
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16 Sep 2012, 8:09 am

Oodain wrote:

please some actual sources on that tequila, most muslims i meet are perfectly fine people

I've met lots of decent people who happened to be Muslims. Doesn't mean that the religion in large part isn't an intolerant lot of old rot though.

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16 Sep 2012, 8:11 am

Tequila wrote:

Oodain wrote:

please some actual sources on that tequila, most muslims i meet are perfectly fine people.

Fine.

http://my.telegraph.co.uk/danielpycock/ ... of-the-uk/

0% (0 in 500) tolerance rate for homosexuals among British Muslims.

It ain't looking too good, is it?

that is a subset of young muslims they are polling in a society where they are met with blatant racism, contantly, methinks you cant simply push this on islam, event ryin is ridicoulous.

mind you i am not saying islam is a good thing, hell i dont even think any forms of christianity is a good thing, but i cant see them as radically different, i can see some of the people that show bad actions as idiots easily enough.

the article itself often highlight the difference between the muslim tested there adn the average adult muslim.

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16 Sep 2012, 8:21 am

Oodain wrote:

that is a subset of young muslims they are polling in a society where they are met with blatant racism

So you're not denying the fact that a considerable number of Muslims (especially young Muslims) agree with Islamist terrorism?

Also, does that excuse their views on women and homosexuals? Did you read the article instead of being an apologist? Is it because it tells you, in black and white, what you don't want to hear?

The religion is the problem. You won't find any group anywhere near as ultraconservative and intolerant as many Muslims in Britain, even among the majority that don't actually carry out violence. Considerable parts of the far-left in this country have united in common cause with the Islamist far-right here as well.

Oodain wrote:

the article itself often highlight the difference between the muslim tested there adn the average adult muslim.

That says something else to me - that young Muslims are even more intolerant and hateful than their adult counterparts. Integration into British society is going backwards, not forwards. They (like many of us) feel rootless and, with no real pride in anything, want to belong to something. I can see that "connecting with their roots" and Islam would be very tempting in that context, even hardline Islam.

Oodain wrote:

the article itself often highlight the difference between the muslim tested there adn the average adult muslim

Which suggests to me that we're going to have serious problems in decades to come with people being brought up to have these beliefs if we go on as we are.

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