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Awesomelyglorious
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05 Feb 2007, 7:57 pm

skafather84 wrote:
my main man for president in 2008 right now is ron paul. on the republican ticket but he's more of a libertarian if you check out his voting history.

Considering that he once was a libertarian, it is no surprise that he would vote like one.



Awesomelyglorious
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05 Feb 2007, 7:57 pm

skafather84 wrote:
what's this we stuff? i'm in the class known as "working poor" just above poverty level. i think i made maybe $12k or so?

She meant global poverty.



skafather84
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05 Feb 2007, 8:01 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
what's this we stuff? i'm in the class known as "working poor" just above poverty level. i think i made maybe $12k or so?

She meant global poverty.


ah ha.....well my concern with that is addressing it domestically first....gotta stop yourself from bleeding before you can save others.



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05 Feb 2007, 8:02 pm

skafather84 wrote:
dexkaden wrote:
(But also read The Mystery of Capital by Hernado DeSoto. Very interesting take on poverty and what we can do to help.)



what's this we stuff? i'm in the class known as "working poor" just above poverty level. i think i made maybe $12k or so?


Doesn't mean you can't do anything. It isn't about money so much as it is about legal structures in place that allow for the liquidity of capital. And by "we" I meant The World because I think that just shoving money at LDCs without the proper infrastructure just leads to corruption and more poverty. It is a very interesting book.

Also, while it is specifically talking about LDCs (less developed countries, sorry), the principle is the same everywhere. It is basically saying that--and this is a very simplistic generalizaton of this book--that excessive government regulation and protectionism stifles an economy.


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skafather84
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05 Feb 2007, 8:08 pm

dexkaden wrote:
because I think that just shoving money at LDCs without the proper infrastructure just leads to corruption and more poverty.



how come the first thought i had here was "live 8" and "live aid."


oh yeah...because it's just a big excuse to throw money at corrupt governments who'll quickly squander the money on personal interests instead of that of the state and it's people.



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05 Feb 2007, 8:13 pm

skafather84 wrote:
dexkaden wrote:
because I think that just shoving money at LDCs without the proper infrastructure just leads to corruption and more poverty.



how come the first thought i had here was "live 8" and "live aid."


oh yeah...because it's just a big excuse to throw money at corrupt governments who'll quickly squander the money on personal interests instead of that of the state and it's people.


Yes, and (Product) Red and ALL THOSE charities we so willingly give to and that are good ideas (really, they are good ideas), but they are missing the point, I think, that the REASON these people are so bad off is because they do not have what people in developed countries take for granted---a legal system designed to protect property rights and allow for the easy liquidation of capital. This deSoto fellow estimates that the dollar amount of capital the people in poverty stricken areas is in the billions, but they lack the infrastructure turn it into capital (or wealth.) And again, that is a very simple generalization, but it is a fascinating read, and I highly recommend it.

Also, for 2008, my bid is on Walter Williams...


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Awesomelyglorious
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05 Feb 2007, 8:18 pm

dexkaden wrote:
Also, for 2008, my bid is on Walter Williams...

I didn't think he was running.



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05 Feb 2007, 8:39 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
dexkaden wrote:
Also, for 2008, my bid is on Walter Williams...

I didn't think he was running.


He's not yet. But I have hope. It was mostly a Mallard Fillmore comic strip. But I wish he would run.


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skafather84
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05 Feb 2007, 8:40 pm

Awesomelyglorious
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05 Feb 2007, 10:27 pm

dexkaden wrote:
He's not yet. But I have hope. It was mostly a Mallard Fillmore comic strip. But I wish he would run.

I found that strip when trying to verify your statement.



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06 Feb 2007, 12:24 am

walter williams doesn't believe in global warming?



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06 Feb 2007, 2:19 am

Well, I can't speak for him---he is really good about answering emails, though--but I think he is saying that "global warming" as promoted today is more about fear tactics to push for legislation (hence, "control") rather than an actual crisis to be worried about. I believe you are referencing "Fearmongering?" I agree with him on this, actually. And while I think climate change is real, I am hesitant to agree with any assessment that proclaims massive governmental oversight and control as the solution, which is to say I do not think it is as massive a crisis as people are being led to believe.


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skafather84
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06 Feb 2007, 5:49 am

just wanted that cleared up. seems about on par.....but i think now isn't the time to avoid just saying what it is.....global warming is global warming.


i'd say fearmongering would more be using the soon-projected oil crash and the resulting climate change as result of the soon coming oil crash.....if it is, in fact, real.

/also spend too much time reading stuff like www.exitmundi.nl always a fun time....check out the oil peak scenario....should spur some side-reading. :twisted:


edit: okay so the website is down last i saw....sadness. maybe it'll be up in a day or two.



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08 Feb 2007, 11:35 am

socialism is a great idea but only would be logical in a utopia like sociaty. looks like were stuck with capitalism and "free markets" :roll:


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skafather84
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08 Feb 2007, 3:43 pm

skafather84 wrote:
just wanted that cleared up. seems about on par.....but i think now isn't the time to avoid just saying what it is.....global warming is global warming.


i'd say fearmongering would more be using the soon-projected oil crash and the resulting climate change as result of the soon coming oil crash.....if it is, in fact, real.

/also spend too much time reading stuff like www.exitmundi.nl always a fun time....check out the oil peak scenario....should spur some side-reading. :twisted:


edit: okay so the website is down last i saw....sadness. maybe it'll be up in a day or two.


exit mundi is working again!! :)



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09 Feb 2007, 10:41 pm

socialism is simply capitalism,
slightly altered. that is:
capitalism as we usually term it is economic systemality wherein a certain class of people "the capitalists" (usually bankers) have control over capital (funds available for investment).
Whereas socialism makes capitalists - and with a monopoly on capital - of the government.

A free market is not sysnonomous with capitalism. Capitalism is a perturbed system, perturbed by the mighty weight of capital in the hands of whomever capitalists may be. But at least bankers do not ususally have guns.