Roger Stone says trump should “declare martial law” to

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This is reminding me of the Violinist Thought Experiment.

It's a variation of (XFG's favourite) organ donation and flawed as follows:

Firstly, the poor woman is usually said to be trapped in the room with the dying violinist, this is not a fair comparison with pregnancy. Pregnant women retain much of their mobility and freedom, many can work right up to the due date. They are not as mobile as before, certainly, and there is undoubtedly discomfort and inconvenience but bedridden or permanently attached to some sort of hospital bed - no, at least not in the vast majority of cases.

Secondly, and more importantly, disconnecting the violinist from life support is not analogous to most types of abortion. Does the woman have the right to disconnect herself in such a contrived scenario? Probably. Does she have the right to kill the violinist? Cut him into pieces? Probably not.

It (deliberately) fails to distinguish between letting someone die and killing them. This is actually a massive grey area which probably deserves a thread on its own. With some countries having "Good Samaritan" laws (where you can be penalised for not taking reasonable measures to aid fellow humans) and the euthanasia debate still raging.

Acknowledging all that, using a medical example as per the story and speaking generally:

While doctors can sometimes decide to withdraw treatment and let nature take its course, they cannot rightfully euthanise. They certainly could never euthanise to spare someone else discomfort and inconvenience. A tricky distinction for some, but one totally ignored by the example.

Even in this Catholic, conservative state of Poland where I live...
Even after our right wing party took over...
Even after they changed that law...

...abortion of a pregnancy from rape remains legal.

I completely understand that, emotionally. But logically and morally it's likely wrong.

It was part of our Abortion Compromise.
The logic is: you can't demand by law for all people to be heroes.

So, what level of freedom of movement on the person being attached to the violinist, or restriction of movement would be required before you think they are or could be analogous? Would it be more reasonable if the violinist could be moved around in a wheel chair, or the pregnant woman was left bedridden?




What difference does the cutting the person up make, if she has been made well aware that disconnecting herself would kill the violinist? And similarly what would be wrong if the possible mother aborted the lifeform (or bundle of cells) by simply disconnecting it from her, if she was not doing something like cutting it to pieces?




Indeed, there are whole thought experiments that look at this subject, such as the trolley dilemma, that asks people how or whether they might sacrifice on person for saving multiple people. From pulling a switch, sacrificing yourself to pushing a described overweight person in the path of the trolley. In regards to the subject in particular, I think that it comes down to comfort of personal involvement and how one judges the value of personal autonomy and what could be considered a natural path against that. All of it is assuming that a fetus or zygote is even a person, when the arguments can be made that they may not be and the violinist could be seen as an incredibly valuable person. My personal view on the subject is that conservatives take issue mostly on the basis of ideas of purity, that what could one day be a baby is seen as more pure and valuable of a bond to its mother, than the life of an already living and thinking human. A pro life mentality up until birth, after which everything else is just seen as god's will.

That of a pregnant woman? How about some sort of sci-fi wireless life support that produces the symptoms and mobility restriction of pregnancy?



You ask a question...



...then quote my post with the answer and acknowledge the problem. I also see you tactfully ignored this: While doctors can sometimes decide to withdraw treatment and let nature take its course, they cannot rightfully euthanise. They certainly could never euthanise to spare someone else discomfort and inconvenience. Your question only makes sense if you can't see any difference between the two actions here.



This is the heart of the problem, the nature of the unborn. It is not a person certainly, in many jurisdictions persons aren't persons until the age of 18. But of course we can't run around killing those under 18 for such frivolous reasons.

Depends on the logic used & moral code applied, doesn’t it?

So many people don’t realize that others aren’t illogical or immoral, they simply think differently than you and love their lives by a different moral code.

Looking for a Topic Here of Declaring 'Roger Stone Martial
Law', According to the Logic And Morality of Nature
All Naturally As such, Enduring a Record Breaking
Early "S" Storm, Sally on 9.16.2020 in the Same
Place, Same Date, the "I" Storm, Ivan
Visited in 2004;
It's becoming
Heir Apparent
that Nature overall
is Declaring Martial Law
AGAINST THE ViRuS oF Human
CuLTuRE Eating the Face of Nature
i Love to Personally Call God that is Indeed
Of Course Shooting our Own Feet Now out of
Balance as indeed it is Impossible to Separate
Ourselves As Evolved From Our Only Home Nature
Now Including Us of course; Side Note: Look at the
Spiraling Curve of the Paragraph Above Just Another
Wave of Nature's Breath of My Words in Ocean Water
Flow All Naturally too; Okay, We aRe ALL Nature
SPeaKinG iNDeed God This Way; So, SPeaKinG
of Nature, We Have Become the ViRuS;
the Pandemic; Truly the Zombies
Eating Nature's Own Face,
Shooting Ourselves
in the God Foot
Same; in Over-Population
Taking More Than Giving as
The United States Uses 40 Percent
of Human Environmental Resources
With 4 Percent of the Globe Population
As of Course All This Greed and Hoarding
of Resources Relates Selfish Whims not to
Wear a Mask to Protect Others of Our own Species
As We Now Have a Bit over 20 Percent of Covid-19 Globe Deaths;
WHere Tens of Thousands of Lives Could Be Saved for only lifting
'The Cross' of a Small Cotton Mask Over our Nose and Mouth; Obviously
We aRe at Least
5 Times
More
Selfish
In Greed
And Hoarding
than the Rest of the
Human Beings on the Planet;
So, Naturally By Karma of Do;
Nature applies Martial Law
For What We Do and
Who We Are
Now
ViRuS
Pandemic
Zombie Force
Consuming More
of God's Face Nature
Than We Give Back Free
in All Loving Return; the Last
Thing We Need on this Planet
Are More Human Beings; For Pure
Logic and Morality of the one Law that
Doesn't Change for Surviving and Thriving
For All Balance of 'The Wave of Existence Overall';
Humans Are Falling Off for they don't Understand
They Are Killing 'God'
Out of Balance
Consuming
Nature
More
(GoD)
than Giving
Back and again
'WRiTE' on Topic
Nature's Declaration
of Martial Law Against
Human Being is REAL

And NOT

FAUX

NEWS;

Hehe;
Meanwhile
Many Humans
'Mentally Masturbate'
in Disagreement unable
to Get on A SaMe PagE of Balance Now;

Other than that on the Off-topic Abortion
Issue; Science Already Shows When it becomes
illegal, this Natural Part of Nature Balancing in the
Animal Kingdom in Human Too; DOES NOT GO AWAY
AS currently Abortion Rates in the United States are as
Low As they Were in '73 When Rowe Versus Wade First went into Effect;
Planned Parenthood and Effective Contraception in Educational Ways is
What Really Lowers the Frequency of Abortions now; go Back to
Being 'A
3rd
World'
Country,
without Safe
Abortions; And
the Maiming and
Permanent Disability
And Killing in More Misery
And Suffering Just Naturally go up;

True; there is Made-Up Human
Morality and Logic and
the Morality
Of Nature
in Logic
That is Balance
to Survive As that Part
Ain't ever Going Away now
As Long as We are Human now
And Not Just Machines with not
Only Mechanical Minds butt Bodies too....

Other than that 'Roger Stone' is Just
Trying to Stay Relevant; not unlike
Trump; Any Hot Blow of Smoke
Will Do to Satisfy that Lust
That will Never
Be Satisfied
Complete
And True this
is 'the Animal'
The "Zombie"
Overall
Eating
The Face of
God Nature
Now With No
Humility or Shame;
While God Nature Will
Only Burp the offenders
in Earth, Wind, and Fire
More with Warriors
too small
for
Us to
Even See
to Remove Some
of Us more to Put
Us BacK iN our Place of Balance Again..
IT WiLL Make So Much More Sense And Better Feelings If
We just follow the Morality and Logic of Nature Balance ALL NOW...

Considering that Roaches and Dragonflies Have Been Around
300 MiLLioN Years; 'This Nature God' Favors And Flavors the Meeker

Without Fear

And Hate indeed...

to Simply Remain, Survive, And Stay...

Yes humanity should check out the mirror and will see the virus in front of them - just like in the Neverending Story where Atreyu had to see if he was ready to see his true self revealed in the glass.

A lot of lessons to be learned from that - and Fantasia started afresh, like we ought to - a clean slate - a new humanity.'

Concisely Spoken;
We Either Write
Our Own
Stories
Acting
Them
Anew
Or We
Remain in
Someone Else's
Story Book; True OR FALSE...
If We Stop Writing and Acting Our

Stories New

Chaos
Destruction
Disaster For Real

Hehe; Moon Child; Moon Child, i call out to Not
Only See But Be; As The Moon Shows A New Face Each Day

Haha; as now i've
Got close to 6,000
Facebook Profile

Pics in 7 Years too;

If We Are Willing
to Change for
The Better
We Will
Save All of Us Indeed..

As Human What We All Share
As Oldest Tradition Keeping
Us Together Surviving and Thriving
Is Love; Love For Change And Greater Adaptations
IN BALANCE WITH THE REST OF NATURE AT CORE OF LOVE Will Keep us Alive..

Dang I'm late to this party.
Just going to say that imposing martial law after an electoral defeat would be the best way to cause as many riots as possible.
That's not me defending riots. That's just a realist fact. Do you want fewer riots and not more riots? Then do not support martial law.
Then the only way to end them will be for him to either step down or start killing enough hundreds or thousands of people in the streets that no one will dare protest or criticize trump in any way.

Nice to see the thread back on topic

When the right speaks up or does stuff (eg. Trump right now) they are socially condemned but when the left does it they get a free pass.

Has someone on the left proposed a martial law as a solution to losing an election?
If yes, I absolutely condemn that person.

Has the left done anything like this in recent memory? In order to insist that they do it too they need to have actually done it, otherwise it's a dishonest line of argument to trot out out.