Trump's various attempts to challenge election results

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Deltaville
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15 Dec 2020, 7:32 pm

My opinion - the Trump effort to subvert the election via judicial means is futile.

I am extremely convinced of one thing, however.

The so-called Trump lawsuits serve one purpose, and one purpose alone, to make Trump a viable 2024 candidate.

Trump had been denied a second term, and thus, his current objective is to ensure that in the future he would remain a viable candidate. The lawsuits generate the illusion of statistical uncertainty with the election results, and consequently, voters would be more inclined to feel that any future vote for trump in any future election won't go to total waste.

That is why, in a nutshell, the Trump campaign is suing like no tomorrow.


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goldfish21
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15 Dec 2020, 11:12 pm

Deltaville wrote:
My opinion - the Trump effort to subvert the election via judicial means is futile.

I am extremely convinced of one thing, however.

The so-called Trump lawsuits serve one purpose, and one purpose alone, to make Trump a viable 2024 candidate.

Trump had been denied a second term, and thus, his current objective is to ensure that in the future he would remain a viable candidate. The lawsuits generate the illusion of statistical uncertainty with the election results, and consequently, voters would be more inclined to feel that any future vote for trump in any future election won't go to total waste.

That is why, in a nutshell, the Trump campaign is suing like no tomorrow.


Fake news!

He knows damned well he’s lying and has no case. The entire thing is all a circus performance for his base who believe the garbage he says. Why? Because his campaign is in debt $170M and he’s sending emails to his cult several times a day telling them to donate to his election fraud lawsuit fund & then using the money to pay off campaign debts.

Also, he’s totally delusional and believes his own BS after repeating it so many times. He’s convinced himself the election was stolen from him.

And last but not least, he’s a vindictive a-hole and he Knows he spent 4 year radicalizing MAGAs & that he can spin them up and turn them loose on America just to make as big of waves for Biden to have to deal with.. everything from physical violence in the streets to distrust in government and the election system. It’s part of his “scorched Earth,” “break everything on the way out the door,” policy.


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ASPartOfMe
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16 Dec 2020, 7:32 am

Desperate attempt to

A. Avoid prison

B. Avoid having to flee the country the ultimate act of a loser.


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goldfish21
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17 Dec 2020, 2:54 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Desperate attempt to

A. Avoid prison

B. Avoid having to flee the country the ultimate act of a loser.


Speaking of losers, I read an article earlier about how a bunch of delusional trump supporters who made bets on trump to win at an online bookie called “Betfair” (.com, I guess) were losing their s**t over the website calling the election for Biden after the electoral college vote. They seem to still not realize trump lost the election and don’t think they should have to pay up because trump still has “legal challenges,” to the “fraudulent election.” :lol: :lol: :lol:


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17 Dec 2020, 6:34 am

goldfish21 wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Desperate attempt to

A. Avoid prison

B. Avoid having to flee the country the ultimate act of a loser.


Speaking of losers, I read an article earlier about how a bunch of delusional trump supporters who made bets on trump to win at an online bookie called “Betfair” (.com, I guess) were losing their s**t over the website calling the election for Biden after the electoral college vote. They seem to still not realize trump lost the election and don’t think they should have to pay up because trump still has “legal challenges,” to the “fraudulent election.” :lol: :lol: :lol:

Most of the Trump supporters I interacted were utterly convinced that not only would he own the libs again by pulling off another upset but that he was going to win by a landslide. Sort of a MAGA version of the progressive bubble of 2016.


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goldfish21
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18 Dec 2020, 4:14 pm

Has anyone told trump that Obama can hold his breath underwater for an hour?

I wouldn’t mind seeing him challenge that..


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19 Dec 2020, 9:56 am

The Navarro Report.


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19 Dec 2020, 11:27 am

Ok - I'll suspend disbelief for now, owing to the source being "Bannon's War Room".

I only got as far as this:

Quote:
Shortly after midnight, however, as a flood of mail-in and absentee ballots began entering the count, the Trump red tide of victory began turning Joe Biden blue. As these mail-in and absentee ballots were tabulated, the President’s large leads in Georgia, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin simply vanished into thin Biden leads.
(...)
In the wake of this astonishing reversal of Trump fortune, a national firestorm has erupted over the fairness and integrity of one of the most sacrosanct institutions in America – our presidential election system.
I thought it was already well-established that the "flood of mail-in and absentee ballots" arrived and were counted after the in-person voting, and that this was the reason behind the "astonishing reversal of Trump fortune".
Quote:
The weight of evidence and patterns of irregularities are such that it is irresponsible for anyone – especially the mainstream media – to claim there is “no evidence” of fraud or irregularities.
But nevertheless, none has been presented; all the cases failed for the same reason: lots of accusatory noise but none of it supported by actual facts.

One would think that at least one of the serious assertions made as "a checkmark in matrix cell indicates there is widespread evidence in a given state for a particular dimension of election irregularity" would have supporting evidence - even the smallest part - strong enough to withstand the lightest and most basic of questioning of a judge?
Yet none of it does.


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goldfish21
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19 Dec 2020, 12:23 pm

^ It’s all a con and everyone but trump supporters can see it. All they have to do is keep making headlines with their wild accusations and fools keep sending them money, soo.. why would they stop the BS train?

Image


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Cornflake
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19 Dec 2020, 12:27 pm

^ Sad but true.


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NobodyKnows
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19 Dec 2020, 7:39 pm

Republicans fumbled this pretty badly. The reasonable argument they should have made is that absentee voting lacks the privacy safeguards of in-person voting, which are there to prevent voter intimidation and vote buying. (It's harder to bribe/cajole someone into changing their vote if you can't see their ballot.)

That's why most blue states still have rules about who can assist a disabled person in the polling booth. Take California for example:

Quote:
Voters unable to complete their ballot may bring one or two persons with them into the voting booth to assist them, or they may ask pollworkers to provide assistance.

Voters may not be assisted by their employer, union representative nor an agent of the employer or union representative. [emphasis in original]

Cornflake wrote:
I thought it was already well-established that the "flood of mail-in and absentee ballots" arrived and were counted after the in-person voting, and that this was the reason behind the "astonishing reversal of Trump fortune".

It wasn't a surprise. Slate actually had an article about the late counting of ballots in several key states that was posted early on election day or the night before.

That said, most of the criticisms I've read of "midnight vote drops" had to do with the partisan ratio of those votes and how the overall ratio (in-person and absentee) compared to past elections. I don't know those districts well enough to have an opinion. The vote buying allegations in my district (MN CD-5) originated with a prominent Somali activist who's been reliably non-partisan for 20 years, and they were apparently corroborated by a longtime Democratic organizer who suspended her 2020 Democratic candidacy for Minneapolis City Council after a significant number of voters in her ward expected her to pay them. (I say "apparently" because her campaign website is gone and Facebook won't let me see her video announcement. At minimum she hasn't disputed the reporting on it, which she would have a strong motive do if it were false.)



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20 Dec 2020, 1:09 am

goldfish21 wrote:
^ It’s all a con and everyone but trump supporters can see it. All they have to do is keep making headlines with their wild accusations and fools keep sending them money, soo.. why would they stop the BS train?

Image


I'm afraid that's not the worst part of the story
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexand ... 9428c0773c



goldfish21
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20 Dec 2020, 3:18 am

^I bet he’s funnelled a lot more than a mere few Million into his businesses.. I mean, just look at the cost of his golf trips - much of the money going to his own clubs.. ~$142,000,000.00 (But I think that includes security costs) https://trumpgolfcount.com/


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20 Dec 2020, 3:51 am

goldfish21 wrote:
^I bet he’s funnelled a lot more than a mere few Million into his businesses.. I mean, just look at the cost of his golf trips - much of the money going to his own clubs.. ~$142,000,000.00 (But I think that includes security costs) https://trumpgolfcount.com/


Let's not forget the millions he swindled from Trump University before declaring bankrupt. He settled out of court. Many of those who lost money ironically still sing his praises as a "fearless entrepreneur".



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20 Dec 2020, 11:33 am

Disgrace after Defeat by Rich Lowry and Ramesh Ponnuru

Quote:
It had long been obvious that if Trump lost the election, his exit would be graceless.

It was hard to see him conceding defeat in any circumstance, even if he got buried in a landslide. Having flouted norms throughout his presidency, there was no way that he would begin honoring them on his way out the door. Given to insulting his opponents and complaining of unfairness in the best of circumstances, he wasn’t going to find resources of classiness hitherto not in evidence.

Yet Trump hasn’t even managed to clear the low bar of realistic expectations for his post-election conduct.

All in all, it’s the worst thing he’s done in his presidency and the worst exit of a defeated president in U.S. history, an effort that is not less infamous for being incompetent and risible.

Vote fraud is a serious offense against democracy and the law, and should be combated as such. But the Trump team and its allies have not been able to provide evidence of widespread illegal activity despite an intense, indeed fevered, search for it. While the rhetoric of Trump’s lawyers has emphasized a fraudulent, stolen election, the arguments in court typically haven’t been about alleged fraud at all. They have focused on changes in procedures prior to the election, disparities in how counties handled absentee ballots, and the distance Republican observers were kept from the counting — none of which has come close to supporting the drastic remedies Trump has sought.

Trump was clearly preparing the ground for his fraud allegations prior to the election. His obsessive attacks on mail-in voting were out of proportion to the threat such voting represented. Yes, mail-in voting is less secure than in-person voting. Yes, some states were ill prepared to handle the tsunami of mail-in ballots. But the states that have long had robust mail-in voting programs, such as Colorado, Utah, and Oregon, haven’t experienced widespread fraud.

In eschewing vote by mail, Trump created an even heavier political lift for himself by urging his voters to vote only in-person, thus kicking away an opportunity to bank votes and requiring a massive same-day turnout to overcome what Democrats had been building over the course of weeks. If a quarter of the Georgia Republicans who cast absentee ballots in the primary but didn’t vote at all in the fall election had instead voted by mail, Trump would have won the state. By contrast, in Florida, where Trump won more comfortably than he did in 2016, the state GOP didn’t discourage voting by mail. In the Georgia runoffs for Senate, even Trump has urged people to vote by mail.

Trump’s attacks on mail-in voting were useful, however, in enabling him to discredit the election. The politicization of voting methods meant that same-day ballots would be heavily Trump while absentee ballots would skew Democratic. The fact that key states counted the same-day ballots first created the impression of a Trump lead that got overtaken in the dead of the night or in the days after the election.

That Trump would look for a way to undermine the legitimacy of a loss should have been obvious from the 2016 campaign, when he promised, with characteristic frankness, to accept the result “if I win.”

The failure of this post-election campaign has not made it costless. Trump has encouraged millions of voters to believe that their votes do not count toward election results. He has sent them on a hunt for participants in a nonexistent conspiracy against the public. He has directed scorn and rage at state officials, including Republi­cans who backed him loyally, whose sin has been to follow the law instead of indulging him. And he has set a terrible precedent for future elections, especially ones that turn out closer than this one did.

Republicans who have not been willing to parrot his claim of a landslide victory have generally not contradicted it, either. Instead they have resorted to offering one shabby excuse after another for the president’s conduct. They say, for example, that he has every right to make his case in court, a claim that runs against decades of more sensible statements from Republicans about the evils of frivolous litigation.

Or they say that Trump and his supporters have raised important questions. In many cases that is an ex­tremely charitable assessment. Take the widely broadcast claim that turnout in Milwaukee jumped suspiciously from 71 percent in 2012, when Obama was on the ticket, to 85 percent with Biden this year. The Republican National Committee spread that one — and didn’t correct the record when it was shown that turnout in 2012 was actually 87 percent, and therefore hadn’t risen at all. The lawsuits don’t merely ask questions, anyway: They request action, typically in the form of throwing out the ballots of thousands of law-abiding voters.

Another quasi-defense of Trump has been that many of his opponents refused to recognize the legitimacy of his election, too, and set out to undermine his new administration with investigations. That’s true. But this was not behavior to emulate, and Trump has exceeded it. Barack Obama did not delay the transition, let alone attack other Democrats for allowing it to proceed. Neither he nor Hillary Clinton urged state legislators to override their states’ voters.

Al Gore came closer to winning the 2000 election than Trump did this year, and put up a political and legal fight. But he didn’t spread conspiracy theories, urge that officials be put in jail for refusing to back his effort, or file dozens of lawsuits that got laughed out of court. Trump has plumbed new depths.

Through much of this, most elected Republicans followed their habit of keeping their heads down. This reflex started as an understandable, and probably prudent, decision. After he won in 2016, Trump was going to be president no matter what. But this posture hardened into an unwillingness by most congressional Republicans to criticize Trump on much of anything unless the provocation was intolerable.

Their fear of Trump — of his ability to mobilize a lot of their own voters against them with one tweet or statement — was well founded.

It’s not surprising that Trump would disgrace himself after an election loss; it is remarkable that he’s done it this grotesquely, and with so many who should know better effectively aiding and abetting him.


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20 Dec 2020, 12:00 pm

Executive Order 66 13848 may be useful to know about in the coming days. Rumours buzzing around the internet as usual...


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