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0_equals_true
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04 Mar 2016, 6:26 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Qaeda's founder was a former Muslim Brotherhood.


It is all about the the Muslim Sisterhood now. Muslim Brotherhood was so last year.

Image

Hummuṣ are part of the Sisterhood.



AR15000
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05 Mar 2016, 12:14 pm

I think that Israel and Iran should make amends. Besides, these 2 nations have something important in common: They're the only 2 NON-Arab middle eastern states.



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05 Mar 2016, 2:14 pm

AR15000 wrote:
I think that Israel and Iran should make amends. Besides, these 2 nations have something important in common: They're the only 2 NON-Arab middle eastern states.


The definition of middle east is somewhat sketchy. You could also count Turkey which is non-arab.

Or you could argue the "middle east" is really the beginning western Asia. There are plenty of non-arab countries in the same latitude.

The most absurd definition of middle east included Morocco / Western Sahara. I mean that is further west than Spain.

Iran border countries like Afghanistan and Pakistan, which are central Asian cultures, not Arab.



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05 Mar 2016, 2:20 pm

If anyone should make up with Iran to is the UK and USA, talking about real and historically verifiable conspiracies.



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05 Mar 2016, 3:42 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
Not really because it is still anecdotal and based on a faulty translation of the Arabic.

Part of Al Qaeda's original aims was removal of westerners from the Arabian peninsular. They weren't all that focused on Palestine originally.

See the situation in SA is like this. The Wahhabis give the Shieks (House of Saud) their power as otherwise it would not stand up. This relationship was crucial in taking power from the Rashids who where supported by the Turks. However their relationship has been one of convenience from the beginning. Wahhabis need an emirate to fulfill their religious state and the Shieks need Wahhabis to maintain their lifestyle.

The Shieks are morally bankrupt, becuase they are massive hypocrites who are inhumane. Wahhabis are morally bankrupt becuase of of their totally backward an inhumane ideology.

Al Qaeda represents those that feel Wahhabism isn't being adhered to.

One of the reasons why it thrives is many nationalist (Nasserist/Baathist/pan-Arab) movements at the time (i.e. in Egypt) had their predecessors in prisons. When Afghan I started they decided to let them go thinking they would be killed our wouldn't come back.

There is a direct historical line between the Muslim Brotherhood, Egyptian Islamic Jihad and Al Qaeda.


It makes me laugh that you make out that these groups are in some way independent. They wouldn't exist were it not for the West. Women got the right to vote in Afghanistan before they did in the US, and it was the US that sent them backwards, supporting types that threw acid in women's faces.

Where did I say that Al Qaeda were focused on Palestine?

This is all pretty irrelevant. The only thing that matters is that these states are US and Israeli puppets, they can be any form of Islam or Mormons for all the US cares.

"There is a direct historical line between the Muslim Brotherhood, Egyptian Islamic Jihad and Al Qaeda."

Yeah, they are all Western proxies.


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05 Mar 2016, 4:00 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Yeah, they are all Western proxies.

Evidence please?



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05 Mar 2016, 4:08 pm

The problem with you position John, is you see thing from a very one sided perspective.

I acknowledge the west disastrous interventions in the middle east, however unlike you I'm don't underplay the sectarian tensions and factionalism that have existed in the middle east for centuries, that can't all be blamed on the west. They could get along better.

You know the Wests involvement is not unique the that area. Tensions have to exist to be stired up.



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05 Mar 2016, 4:19 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Women got the right to vote in Afghanistan before they did in the US, and it was the US that sent them backwards, supporting types that threw acid in women's faces.


This is not true. Women got the right to vote in 1965 and it was 1920 in the US.

The US did achieve universal suffrage in 1965, which is quite late but not to do with women.

The Taliban's rise has quite a lot to do with Pakistan, which is not surprising becuase it was Pastun Nationalist movement.



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05 Mar 2016, 5:31 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Yeah, they are all Western proxies.

Evidence please?


It would take weeks to amount it all. Really is something you need to investigate yourself. I don't know the info I have read off by heart or remember all the links. There would be links to back up all those claims, but it would take time to scan through the site's integrity. Here's a start though


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05 Mar 2016, 5:33 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
The problem with you position John, is you see thing from a very one sided perspective.

I acknowledge the west disastrous interventions in the middle east, however unlike you I'm don't underplay the sectarian tensions and factionalism that have existed in the middle east for centuries, that can't all be blamed on the west. They could get along better.

You know the Wests involvement is not unique the that area. Tensions have to exist to be stired up.


That's the trouble, you don't understand that these disasters are intentional. You believe they are just mistakes. Do you really believe they are that stupid? The West has been blocking democracy for decades and supporting corrupted regimes.


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05 Mar 2016, 5:38 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Women got the right to vote in Afghanistan before they did in the US, and it was the US that sent them backwards, supporting types that threw acid in women's faces.


This is not true. Women got the right to vote in 1965 and it was 1920 in the US.

The US did achieve universal suffrage in 1965, which is quite late but not to do with women.

The Taliban's rise has quite a lot to do with Pakistan, which is not surprising becuase it was Pastun Nationalist movement.


You mean you didn't know.

"Afghan women were first eligible to vote in 1919 - only a year after women in the UK were given voting rights, and a year before the women in the United States were allowed to vote."

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/womens-right ... an-history

The Taliban's rise wouldn't have happened without the US.


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05 Mar 2016, 5:47 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
"Afghan women were first eligible to vote in 1919 - only a year after women in the UK were given voting rights, and a year before the women in the United States were allowed to vote..


Being able to vote and being allowed to go to school are two different things. It's naive to ignore tribal customs in places like Afghanistan where girls have never been allowed an education or independence. It's also naive to belittle the women's movement in the US which had a great influence on women's rights in your own country.

The Palestinians have chosen the wrong path by supporting terrorism to achieve their political aspirations. Take a leaf from South East Asia where people went from third world conditions to becoming first world. It's honestly not too late.



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05 Mar 2016, 5:53 pm

Citations

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=vFp ... 65&f=false

http://www.afghan-web.com/woman/afghanwomenhistory.html

You re talk about suffrage in a time that Afghanistan wasn't even a democracy, although was getting there.



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05 Mar 2016, 5:57 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Being able to vote and being allowed to go to school are two different things. It's naive to ignore tribal customs in places like Afghanistan where girls have never been allowed an education or independence. It's also naive to belittle the women's movement in the US which had a great influence on women's rights in your own country


Well JP/Amnesty international is wrong anyway. But there were reforms. The Shah , was in competition with tribal councils though, which is why he eventually had to leave. He was too liberal, and pushed things to far too fast.



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05 Mar 2016, 6:15 pm

It massaging the facts to say women's suffrage was achieved in 1919, pretty much an outright lie.

The reforms in the 50/60s were a good start. The problem is access to polling stations, and even the concept of voting and election is much of the country was lacking. Some of these are are very isolated even now.

The problem it didn't last. Blaming that failure on the West don't make sense, and this was way before the Taliban.



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19 Mar 2016, 12:50 pm

cyberdad wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
"Afghan women were first eligible to vote in 1919 - only a year after women in the UK were given voting rights, and a year before the women in the United States were allowed to vote..


Being able to vote and being allowed to go to school are two different things. It's naive to ignore tribal customs in places like Afghanistan where girls have never been allowed an education or independence. It's also naive to belittle the women's movement in the US which had a great influence on women's rights in your own country.

The Palestinians have chosen the wrong path by supporting terrorism to achieve their political aspirations. Take a leaf from South East Asia where people went from third world conditions to becoming first world. It's honestly not too late.


OK, well changes occurred there in the 60's too, women were going to University in miniskirts in the 70's. It was only when the trouble started in the late 70's and the US and the Soviets fighting it out for control, and the US backing monsters that poured acid in women's faces that ended with the results we see now. There are sick groups in every country, and with the right backing they could get near or in power.

How have the Palestinians "supported terrorism"? In the late 1980's, they chose peaceful demonstrations, only to be shot to pieces, beaten and tortured. Israel and the US are the biggest terrorists.


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